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LAPD helicopter tracker with real-time operating costs

lapdhelicoptertracker.com

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Re: LAPD helicopter tracker with real-time operating costs

#301

Post by Semaphor »

rootusrootus wrote: post #84
Semaphor wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a pop 200k city, hospital copters are a daily occurrence. Police? Never seen one, Hamburg, one of our biggest cities, apparently has 3.

Same for me. I live in a pop 1M city in America. Hospital choppers are fairly common. Police choppers rare. Also, according to the tracker, there's only one airborne in LA right now, and it is a pretty large city. It's close to 100x bigger than a 200k city.

It’s not that much bigger than Hamburg, though. But I guess Hamburg is denser.

Re: LAPD helicopter tracker with real-time operating costs

#302

Post by zimpenfish »

zimpenfish wrote: post #296
Rebelgecko wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LAPD helicopters rarely if ever leave California. IMO we shouldn't base our law enforcement on what Texas was doing 50 years ago (or West Virginia before helicopters were even invented)

> LAPD helicopters rarely if ever leave California. The person I responded to said "so why do americans have more high speed chases?" Last I checked, "americans" covered more than just California. > IMO we shouldn't base our law enforcement on what Texas was doing 50 years ago Indeed not! California's Three Strikes law isn't all that great though[0]. "Project clients have been given life sentences for offenses includ…

Not 2021! 2012. Stupid typo.

Re: LAPD helicopter tracker with real-time operating costs

#303

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

mike_d wrote: post #288
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On top of that, police car chases are wildly harmful and usually started from things like minor traffic violations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVFXUkFx5Y8

Helicopters avoid car chases by allowing them to follow the car until it gets to a destination or runs out of gas. Even if they "usually" start from a minor traffic violation (which they do not), the majority of individuals who run have outstanding felony warrants or are engaged in committing another crime.

> Helicopters avoid car chases by allowing them to follow the car until it gets to a destination or runs out of gas.

So, the thing that we could do cheaper and easier with drones, we should continue to do with vastly more expensive helicopters.... why?

> Even if they "usually" start from a minor traffic violation (which they do not),

Except that both independent journalists, and every major law enforcement agency, has been saying they do, for 30 years.

  - San Francisco Chronicle "Fast and Fatal" Investigation reported that 82% of car chases that resulted in a death started as a pursuit over a traffic stop or a non-violent offense. (https://github.com/sfchronicle/police_pursuits) (https://journalistsresource.org/media/police-chases-how-they-did-it-san-francisco-chronicle/)
  - A 2025 NY State Attorney General's Office report on improving policing and public safety cited data suggesting that many chases are for minor reasons and highlighted data on the high risk of negative outcomes. (https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/reports/improvingpolicingandpublicsafety.pdf)
  - A 2020 California Highway Patrol report detailed that half of all police pursuits in California during 2019 were initiated for four non-violent reasons: speeding (20.7%), stolen vehicles (13.6%), license/registration violations (8.8%), and red light violations (7.5%). (https://www.chp.ca.gov/siteassets/files/police_pursuits_sb_719_-2020.pdf)
  - A 2010 article from an FBI bulletin noted that "the majority of police pursuits involve a stop for a traffic violation". (https://leb.fbi.gov/articles/featured-articles/evidence-based-decisions-on-police-pursuits-the-officers-perspective)
  - A 1998 Bureau of Justice Statistics analysis of over 952 pursuits in Dade County found that 512 (over 50%) were initiated for a traffic violation. (https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publications/police-vehicle-pursuits-2012-2013)
> the majority of individuals who run have outstanding felony warrants or are engaged in committing another crime

So what? That doesn't justify vehicular homicide, either of bystanders or the perpetrators, not to mention property damage.

You could stop a suspect from running by firing a rocket launcher. But there's a substantial risk associated with what that rocket is going to hit, so we don't do that! A car is a 2-ton missile, and you have multiple of them careening wildly through the street. The risk is insanely out of balance with the objective. There are much less dangerous methods to find and apprehend suspects, and law enforcement agencies have said the same.

If you haven't watched the John Oliver episode that I linked above (YouTube link), I highly recommend it, because it goes over all this in detail.

Re: LAPD helicopter tracker with real-time operating costs

#304

Post by closeparen »

hkpack wrote: post #243
speakfreely wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you shouldn't be starting a high speed pursuit over a seat belt violation, or for someone going 5 over the speed limit. That's the thing: normal people don't. Violent criminals, people with active arrest warrants, and people carrying highly illegal/dangerous things in their vehicles are the types that run from traffic stops.

What about depressed people? What about stressed people? What about people with autism who overreact when spooked? What about people on the edge who didn't care about the consequences because of the life situation? What about people who are convinced that police may kill them for mild violation as they saw that multiple times on the news and social media? The reaction to flee may be justified at the moment as it is l…

Driving on public roads carries a responsibility to respond reasonably in all kinds of stressful situations. People incapable of handling a traffic stop should not be licensed.

Re: LAPD helicopter tracker with real-time operating costs

#305

Post by AnthonyMouse »

nandomrumber wrote: post #295
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The unpainted parts.

Are you saying the unpainted parts are or aren’t galvanised? What metal parts of a car aren’t painted? Or more broadly: coated .

The "unpainted" parts are galvanized. Galvanization is essentially zinc paint (with no dye). For the painted parts, the paint serves the same purpose, which is why it's important not to mess it up.

Re: LAPD helicopter tracker with real-time operating costs

#306

Post by nandomrumber »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #305
nandomrumber wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying the unpainted parts are or aren’t galvanised? What metal parts of a car aren’t painted? Or more broadly: coated .

The "unpainted" parts are galvanized. Galvanization is essentially zinc paint (with no dye). For the painted parts, the paint serves the same purpose, which is why it's important not to mess it up.

You think hot dip galvanising, zinc electroplating, zinc rich primer, and zinc rich top coats are the same?

Jotun would like a word with you.

Re: LAPD helicopter tracker with real-time operating costs

#307

Post by wredcoll »

zimpenfish wrote: post #298
SauntSolaire wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to see more comprehensive stats to answer this question, rather than relying on cases studies you have to go back over one hundred years to find.

> over one hundred years Look, I know I'm old and it feels like it but 1980 is absolutely not one hundred years ago. > I would love to see more comprehensive stats to answer this question Have some more recent California examples (between 1994 when they created the law and 2012 when it was loosened): "[...] given life sentences for offenses including stealing one dollar in loose change from a parked car, possessing l…

From my pseudo-ivory tower viewpoint it seems like the concept of 3 strikes has some validity but with totally the wrong response.

If someone is convicted three times of stealing in a year, even if it's like 1$, clearly something is not working here between this person and the system. It's a pipe dream but it would be nice if we could have some kind of board you could refer cases like that to with the mission statement of "figure out exactlt what is going on here" with powers to take actions that involved things other than prisons.

Alas.

Re: LAPD helicopter tracker with real-time operating costs

#308

Post by mike_d »

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #303
mike_d wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Helicopters avoid car chases by allowing them to follow the car until it gets to a destination or runs out of gas. Even if they "usually" start from a minor traffic violation (which they do not), the majority of individuals who run have outstanding felony warrants or are engaged in committing another crime.

> Helicopters avoid car chases by allowing them to follow the car until it gets to a destination or runs out of gas. So, the thing that we could do cheaper and easier with drones, we should continue to do with vastly more expensive helicopters.... why? > Even if they "usually" start from a minor traffic violation (which they do not), Except that both independent journalists, and every major law enforcement agency, ha…

You literally just made the case for helicopters.

I don't believe you are very familiar with LA airspace, but it will be one of the last places drones ever make sense.

Re: LAPD helicopter tracker with real-time operating costs

#309

Post by kylehotchkiss »

stickfigure wrote: post #149
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Down in SD at least, the sheriff's office helicopters serve many purposes. They'll use them for firefighting, hike rescues (often! according to their IG), first responder to an aviation accident, loudly shouting garbled messages through their loudspeaker, etc. There's just enough high-speed/timely crime here that I prefer they use these over drones. There's some extra legal protections built into helicopters that dro…

I work with CHP helicopters as part of our fire district's rescue team. We pull a half dozen people a year off of one of the local trails (sometimes as "recovery"). Most of these are via helicopter. There are two helos for a huge area - Yolo county down to Santa Cruz county. By acreage it's a lot bigger than LA. My point is, two small helicopters are more than enough to do that job as a side-gig from all the other CH…

Very cool! What specifically is your work?

In SD, we have cal fire helicopters, sheriff helicopters with water tanks, SD City Fire Department has their own, and I just learned SDGE (electric utility) has their own firefighting helicopter.

Re: LAPD helicopter tracker with real-time operating costs

#310

Post by stickfigure »

kylehotchkiss wrote: post #309
stickfigure wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work with CHP helicopters as part of our fire district's rescue team. We pull a half dozen people a year off of one of the local trails (sometimes as "recovery"). Most of these are via helicopter. There are two helos for a huge area - Yolo county down to Santa Cruz county. By acreage it's a lot bigger than LA. My point is, two small helicopters are more than enough to do that job as a side-gig from all the other CH…

Very cool! What specifically is your work? In SD, we have cal fire helicopters, sheriff helicopters with water tanks, SD City Fire Department has their own, and I just learned SDGE (electric utility) has their own firefighting helicopter.

I'm a firefighter in a volunteer district (rural Solano county).
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