Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Meta replaces WhatsApp for Windows with web wrapper

windowslatest.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 402 posts

Re: Meta replaces WhatsApp for Windows with web wrapper

#301

Post by pona-a »

iamcalledrob wrote: post #126

As the person who designed and fought for this app, I am a bit sad about the change. The native app was by no means perfect, but it felt like a real productivity tool that was trying to be respectful of it's environment. I've come to the conclusion that native desktop apps are just not viable from large companies, even if there is headcount. The problem is coordination cost. If you want to launch new features and exp…

As much as I hate the cowboy cryptography of it, Telegram could do it. They are a 30 person team and maintain a web version, a first-class Qt desktop app, and native iOS and Android clients.

I would wager that if they wanted to simplify coordination, Flutter would easily kill iOS and Android with one stone, and optionally desktop and web if they so wish, all without a 1GB web wrapper.

Re: Meta replaces WhatsApp for Windows with web wrapper

#302

Post by sirwhinesalot »

ptx wrote: post #290
sirwhinesalot wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it does, those APIs don't work well together. It's a pain in the ass to use the features only available in the new APIs on old applications. Microsoft has put some effort into making it work but it's still hugely hit and miss. You can mix WPF and WinUI2, but not WinUI3.

Amazing. I thought they fixed that years ago with "XAML islands", but apparently [1] they un-fixed it again with WinUI 3 and still haven't re-fixed it? [1] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/desktop/moder...

Yup, though I wouldn't even say they "fixed it" with XAML islands since they lock you into .NET core 3...

They also keep doing boneheaded decisions like the new DWriteCore, which is a reimplementation of DirectWrite, and some features are only available in DWriteCore, but DWriteCore is not a strict superset and doesn't even interoperate directly with Direct2D like DirectWrite did.

So once again, either stay on the "stable" as people like to call it version, which is effectively frozen, or use the new one and rewrite half you app!

And then people wonder why nobody uses Microsoft APIs if they can avoid it.

Re: Meta replaces WhatsApp for Windows with web wrapper

#303

Post by pragmatic »

pjc50 wrote: post #232
72deluxe wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am baffled by this. I wrote a cross-platform GUI for an audio signal processor in wxWidgets that rendered all of its own widgets (own Draw calls, for faders, graphic EQ, compressors, drag/drop linking of nodes for a layout, knobs, meters/scopes) and incorporated Horde3D as a 3D rendering of the arena. It ran on macOS and Windows. Another chap handled the network control code that included joining multicast groups t…

> So you're saying that it is impossible for a large company to somehow use native toolkits to draw text bubbles and emojis?? One weird thing about software development is that there are plenty of things which motivated individual developers can achieve which large companies can't even write the requirements for, let alone achieve.

Hacker News just recreated startups from first principles! /s

But seriously folks, this is why there will always be room for startups.

Megacorps are slow lumbering beats that suffer from entropy and signal loss at every edge on the graph.

The example here is that some marketing function gets the signal from Zuck to put Lego duplo characters everywhere because metaverse. Of course 90% of the company knows its dead on arrival so they are going to drag feet and try to work on their actual problems (or their local feifdom mandate) and wait for the latest fad to blow over.

Super wasteful, super inefficient but hey ads make an insane amount of money so Zuck can do whatever for a loooong time.

This is why Warren Buffet advocated dividends. Companies and people have few good ideas. Management however uses this money from the good ideas to fund boondoghles (see metaverse). The thinking here is that the money would be better utilized returned to investors to fund other good ideas.

Re: Meta replaces WhatsApp for Windows with web wrapper

#304

Post by sirwhinesalot »

simoncion wrote: post #299
sirwhinesalot wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not wrong nor misleading at all. Win32 doesn't even support dark mode properly because it's effectively "deprecated" like all the others in the graveyard. Who cares if they keep working if the only way to get dark mode is to custom render the whole UI yourself? Might as well do something non-native at that point. Microsoft does not provide a serious UI library for applications to use. It provides 10 half broken…

> Win32 doesn't even support dark mode properly because it's effectively "deprecated" like all the others in the graveyard. Remember when you used to be able to make custom Windows color schemes? Where you could color each widget type independently? I miss that. Assuming that your report is true, if Microsoft gave a shit, they'd come up with four color schemes (high-contrast light/dark mode and regular-contrast light…

I like to joke that we already had dark mode on Window 95. It didn't work super well with black colored icons but you could always just tone down how dark you made it.

We also had pseudo-dark mode themes for Windows XP. But the new dark mode stuff in explorer doesn't use uxtheme anymore.

Re: Meta replaces WhatsApp for Windows with web wrapper

#305

Post by savolai »

72deluxe wrote: post #243
savolai wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can deploy your wxwidgets app as a networked app in the browser too, then sure.

That's not what the issue here is. The issue is not that a native Windows app needs to run in a browser. The issue is that a native Windows app has been replaced by yet another browser.

Yes. Arguably because of the organisational cost of maintaining both a web version (which they arguably need) and a native windows version (which they arguably don’t need).

Re: Meta replaces WhatsApp for Windows with web wrapper

#306

Post by simoncion »

wongarsu wrote: post #174
modo_mario wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait.....why develop that small part so differently than the rest?

Classic case of shipping the org chart (in case anyone needs a reminder of Microsoft's org chart: https://www.globalnerdy.com/2011/07/03/org-charts-of-the-big... )

> in case anyone needs a reminder of Microsoft's org chart: ...

To be a little glib:

As someone who has worked for a few Big Software Companies, I guarantee that Microsoft's org chart has changed significantly at least once in the last fourteen years.

Re-organizations aren't referred to as "shuffling the deck chairs [on the Titanic]" by the rank and file for no reason, yanno?

Re: Meta replaces WhatsApp for Windows with web wrapper

#307

Post by simoncion »

noir_lord wrote: post #175
jadamson wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dear God, I hate the way the Windows 11 Start Menu takes slightly too long to open - long enough that I often accidentally close it again. You can actually watch CPU usage increase if you toggle it.

> You can actually watch CPU usage increase if you toggle it. Not any more, I kept windows 11 around for gaming but I binned the partition, how they managed to make a 7950X3D/7900XTX feel "clunky" is astounding given that I live in KDE which has a reputation for been a "heavy" DE and yet it it feels instantaneously fast in every dimension compared to windows 11.

KDE is a "heavy" DE! Compare its startup time to -say- Windowmaker.

Full disclosure: I use KDE almost exclusively.

Re: Meta replaces WhatsApp for Windows with web wrapper

#308

Post by xzjis »

iamcalledrob wrote: post #126

As the person who designed and fought for this app, I am a bit sad about the change. The native app was by no means perfect, but it felt like a real productivity tool that was trying to be respectful of it's environment. I've come to the conclusion that native desktop apps are just not viable from large companies, even if there is headcount. The problem is coordination cost. If you want to launch new features and exp…

Is it really that useful to have feature parity across all platforms? In Telegram, for some features, it just says "please open this message on your smartphone", and that's fine. If I had the choice, I'd prefer fewer features and lower resource usage over having access to the very latest functionalities, and you can offer the web version as a supplement for whatever is missing.

Re: Meta replaces WhatsApp for Windows with web wrapper

#309

Post by simoncion »

sirwhinesalot wrote: post #304
simoncion wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Win32 doesn't even support dark mode properly because it's effectively "deprecated" like all the others in the graveyard. Remember when you used to be able to make custom Windows color schemes? Where you could color each widget type independently? I miss that. Assuming that your report is true, if Microsoft gave a shit, they'd come up with four color schemes (high-contrast light/dark mode and regular-contrast light…

I like to joke that we already had dark mode on Window 95. It didn't work super well with black colored icons but you could always just tone down how dark you made it. We also had pseudo-dark mode themes for Windows XP. But the new dark mode stuff in explorer doesn't use uxtheme anymore.

> I like to joke that we already had dark mode on Window 95.

When I say it, it's not a joke! :D

> But the new dark mode stuff in explorer doesn't use uxtheme anymore.

I'm only familiar with Windows 10, and in that version Windows Explorer seemed to conform to the system color scheme just fine. Did Microsoft break that at some point in the past three, four months, [0] or did they royally fuck the dog in Windows 11?

For me, the *maddening* color-scheme-nonconformance was Task Manager. No matter what I did, it was *white*. It made it substantially unpleasant when you wanted to check a performance something-or-other in a dark room.

[0] Ever since I learned just how well video games work on Linux (via Steam), I've not booted into Windows. It's so nice. Folks report that there are launchers to run games in the Epic Game Store, but I've not yet bothered, so I can't provide first-hand info.

Re: Meta replaces WhatsApp for Windows with web wrapper

#310

Post by sirwhinesalot »

simoncion wrote: post #309
sirwhinesalot wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to joke that we already had dark mode on Window 95. It didn't work super well with black colored icons but you could always just tone down how dark you made it. We also had pseudo-dark mode themes for Windows XP. But the new dark mode stuff in explorer doesn't use uxtheme anymore.

> I like to joke that we already had dark mode on Window 95. When I say it, it's not a joke! :D > But the new dark mode stuff in explorer doesn't use uxtheme anymore. I'm only familiar with Windows 10, and in that version Windows Explorer seemed to conform to the system color scheme just fine. Did Microsoft break that at some point in the past three, four months, [0] or did they royally fuck the dog in Windows 11? Fo…

Windows Explorer still respects the color-scheme preference but the problem is the way it does it.

When you as a dev use a Windows provided control (be it a button, a toolbar, a context menu, etc.) the system grabs the theme information from something called uxtheme. This is how it worked in Windows XP and why you had like 3 different themes you could pick from and switch between at any time, and most apps would respect the selection.

But dark mode doesn't work like that, there's no uxtheme for dark mode. Windows Explorer is given special treatment by Windows with undocumented APIs. Other apps are not so lucky. If they want dark mode, they need to effectively draw the whole UI themselves. Even apps like Notepad++ have to do that these days.

Post reply on HN