Imagine having to build LibreOffice from source to get it installed
e.g. on Windows
Not bad as long the scripts as there.
MinIO stops distributing free Docker images
301–310 of 585 posts
Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images
#302I think both sides of this argument are correct: 1. MinIO is a business and they don't owe anything to anyone for free. 2. People using the OSS version also are free to express their dissatisfaction. This is not contract law though. This is about using OSS as a marketing gimmick to get mindshare, penetrate the market and then do a bait and switch. From one hand, it is within their right to do whatever they want as ma…
People should understand from the outset that open source contributions from for-profit companies must benefit that company. For VC-backed companies -- or anything else where it's spend now, profit later -- the bait-and-switch is practically inevitable. (Or, of course, the company can simply stop contributing, either from going out-of-business, or pivoting, or being acquired, etc.) If you're considering building long…
I generally agree with your point. Over the years of being responsible for technology stack choices, I've come to apply one rule of thumb on OSS projects: is the project a core competency of the company behind it or not. For example, Github might open source their language detection library or Shopify might open source some frontend development project. These are not core competencies of Github or Shopify. Their business is somewhere else.
However, if I start a business and open source my core competency, with or without VC money, I will have to turn a profit or die, which leads to such outcomes, from MinIO to Hashicorp.
Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images
#303They abandoned documentation (edit: for the open source codebase) a couple of weeks ago - that seems more significant. From their Slack on Oct 10: "The documentation sites at docs.min.io/community have been pulled of this morning and will redirect to the equivalent AIStor documentation where possible ". [emphasis mine] The minio/docs repository hasn't been updated in 2 weeks now, and the implication is that isn't goi…
Well, gosh. Maybe I’m glad I didn’t get that documentation job with MinIO after all.
Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images
#304No need to get mad or upset about this at all, MinIO is telling us exactly who they are:
They want to be a commercial software vendor, and they don't like open source.
As long as they aren't advertising their product as open source, I don't see an issue.
Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images
#305Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nothing like VC or IPO to ruin a perfectly good product...
it used to be that people started businesses so that they could help others by providing a product or a service to them. late stage capitalism arrives when people create businesses solely to get rich, and when other companies are created solely to get rich by helping those people create their companies so that they can get rich. that's what ycombinator is. most of capitalism used to be symbiotic. engaging in transact…
I think very few businesses were created just to help people. Maybe some nonprofits.
Lots of good businesses were created to just make their owners a reasonable income, I mean, most people will take “be rich” if that’s an option but have reasonable expectations.
The problem with heavily invested in companies is occurs when they skip the stage of being a small profitable business with an actual business model.
Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images
#306Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a bad analogy. We are talking about building a very simple Docker image. It is more like you went around your neighborhood and turned peoples lights on in the evening, then stopped. Sure, it’s a lost convenience, but people can easily choose to just… push the button themselves. Or pay somebody to continue doing it for them. Or get a timer. It’s really not a big deal, and there are plenty of alternatives.
OK - I live in a place that's snowy for a lot of the year. I shovel not only my sidewalk but my neighbours' several houses on both sides. People are really happy and grateful. Over the years Mr. Johnson the senior on a fixed pension next door loses mobility and is really appreciative I keep his walk clean. The couple next to him has a new baby and a clear sidewalk helps them load up all the accompanying gear into the…
We had some neighbors that used it throw a big Halloween celebration. They gave out drinks and snacks, dressed up in very elaborate costumes, setup movies on outdoor projectors, and do hayrides.
They didn’t do it last year. I was disappointed, but I’m not angry at them. I realize that they were spending a lot of time and energy and maybe they are just burned out.
I’m sure there are people who are angry and judge them. But those people are spoiled, entitled brats.
The distinction is that it is entirely fine to be disappointed. It’s not fine to get angry.
Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The price of support comes in at at slightly less than the equivalent amount of S3 storage That's absurd. I would be running to NetApp and Dell for competitive object storage quotes then. Haven't done pricing on either one recently but at least a few years ago they were roughly half the price of S3 all in (including hosting costs).
> half the price of S3 No one other than hobbyists is paying full price on AWS.
How to not pay full price on AWS? We pay $10K+ per month and nobody gives us any discount.
Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you were given the ratchet and then someone wanted to charge you every time you use it you would also be pissed.
> If you were given the ratchet and then someone wanted to charge you every time you use it you would also be pissed. People gotta eat. If someone's making valuable tools and giving them away, they still need to get paid somehow. If people aren't voluntarily tipping them enough, then something's gotta give. There have been too many stories of open source developers basically burning themselves out for years, then it…
Conflating physical products and open source software doesn't usually make sense. The open source model is more like someone making a valuable tool for their own use and then agreeing to let other people copy the design and make their own version of it. Monetisation can come from various sources - you may be paid to make the tool in the first place or you may perform a job where that tool helps you (or whoever is paying you).
Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images
#309Earlier quoted context omitted.
With 100PB clusters being built and not a cent going to them, you can see why minio has gone this route. I wonder if they will be "valkeyed"? Not by AWS presumably.
That's a strange mindset, IMO. I'd be pissed if I had to pay $0.10 every time I turned a rachet, and it's weird to expect companies to have usage-based monetization on the tools they've made for others.
An analogy to making a physical tool doesn’t really work because we have to basically describe what software is in terms of exceptions to the analogy.
If I had a ratchet that, every time I turned it, I had to pay $.1, but I’d gotten it for free, but it was basically free to replicate, but the person who designed it did have to spend some significant work on R&D for the thing… I have no idea how I’d price that or how I’d feel.
Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images
#310Earlier quoted context omitted.
This shows a fundamental misunderstanding of OSS. You're essentially saying that only users who contribute to OSS are worthy of attention and support. This is no different than saying that only commercial users, or those from specific countries, backgrounds, or industries are worthy of the same. Those users who create issues, request features, and, yes, ask for support, are as valuable as those who contribute code or…
> If you think otherwise then you should make your terms of service explicit FOSS licenses already do that: they shout at you in all-caps that the authors PROVIDE THE PROGRAM "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED. Meanwhile the licenses don't say anything about communities. For better or worse, OSI convinced everyone that "open source" is synonymous with using specific licenses that meet t…
> how can it be a "fundamental misunderstanding of OSS" to strictly interpret OSS by the terms of the licenses, which don't mention any sort of "social contract", while they do include language explicitly contrary to such expectations of users?
Because free and open-source software is more than a set of licenses approved by some governing body.
It is part of a social movement and ideology pursuing the open sharing of knowledge, and building communities around this where everyone can benefit, not just a select few. Software is one aspect of this, due to its roots in the hacker counterculture of the 1970s, but the core idea extends beyond it.
You can read more about this in many places. Bruce Perens specifically refers to a "social contract" in this early post[1] on the Debian mailing list. This is what is usually referred to as the "spirit" of open source, and is not strictly encoded in any official definition. The success of OSS depends on implicit mutual trust and respect, not on explicit rules and licenses.
[1]: https://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/1997/msg00017.html