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UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

petition.parliament.uk

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Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#301

Post by cortic »

teamonkey wrote: post #242
cortic wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In the UK political expression of free speech is protected by the ECHR, which overrides both those acts This is categorically untrue. Not only is the ECHR worded specifically to allow individual countries to curtail free speech ("any law, deemed by the local democratically elected government as ; necessary in a democratic society, and for a legitimate aim"), but parliament always had sovereignty to pass into law exe…

Yes, this is why the government needed to label Palestine Action as a terrorist organisation. It needed special measures because it did not in fact have the authority to arrest protestors, even though some people found what they were saying offensive.

The Terrorism Act 2000 was a knee-jerk reaction to the Good Friday agreement and used to make association a criminal offense.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#302

Post by n4r9 »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #291
n4r9 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "30 arrests a day" or "12000 arrests a year" stat is wildly misleading. I've addressed it before here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41488099

I think you're being disingenous. There is clearly an unprecedented and systemic effort to police social media. Even if the posts did actually violate the law doesn't change my point or address my concerns. This is not what the police should be doing.

I honestly don't know if that's true or not. But I haven't seen any compelling evidence to support it. The figures being lobbed around by the likes of Tommy Robinson are deeply harmful to the debate because they are both a) completely wrong and b) misleadingly quoted. You can lookt the actual stats here: https://www.met.police.uk/foi-ai/metropolitan-police/disclos...

We're talking on the order of a few hundred arrests per year for section 127 of the Communications Act and 1500 per year for the Malicious Communications Act, which includes stuff like racial harassment, domestic abuse, pedophilic grooming, and a whole host of things that I would hope you agree should be illegal.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#303

Post by bendigedig »

dazc wrote: post #72
panstromek wrote: post #50

I don't understand the problem. How is this different from all other identifiers, physical or digital, that most goverments already have?

The likelihood that it will become tied to your bank account, credit file, etc in a way which isn't currently possible with physical forms of id such as passports and driving licences.

Don't banks demand your National Insurance number already in order to open an account?

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#304

Post by bendigedig »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #157

Kier Starmer seems to have no idea how he's coming across. Everything he does just makes him look more authoritarian. He's doing this right after passing that "online safety" bill. It's remarkable that the only time he got his act together was in sending anti government rioters to prison in record time. Which only goes to show what he can do when he wants. The palestine action thing is another one. They embarrassed h…

He's the ultimate product of a dysfunctional civil service; what else could be expected other than dis-empowering people, ignoring democracy, and increasing bureaucratic power?

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#305

Post by agedclock »

stephen_g wrote: post #209
gslepak wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't get the resistance to a digital/national id in other countries. To us it is quite bizarre. It depends on the country and its relationship with the people. If the people trust that their government represents the people's interests, there is little push-back. In countries where citizens have reason to believe their government is hijacked by interests that do not have their best interests at heart, then every…

Wow, crazy seeing the "15 minute city" conspiracy theory on HN! For those who haven't seen it, the idea of 15 minute cities is that a lot of people think it would be great to structure development of cities with the ideal of a person being able to access most of the services they want to (workplaces, schools, supermarkets, doctors) within 15 minutes (whether walking, cycling, using public transit etc.) of where they…

If you are going to mock conspiracy theorists can you at least articulate the conspiracy theory correctly.

People are worried that it would be made difficult for you to travel outside 15 minute city via a combination of mandated digital payment system for all transactions that are tied to you identity and removal of personal vehicles (e.g. cars).

e.g. Person A is allowed by authorities to buy a train ticket, while Person B is not due to .

I've been told this has been done in China to stop people travelling to protests, but I don't actually know if that is true.

Do I think this is the intention behind 15 minute cities? No. I do however think that what they are describing is possible since I've had problems making transactions electronically for legal purchases because my transaction was flagged by the bank for being fraudulent.

Also in the UK the bank can refuse to give you your money.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#307

Post by dijit »

mulmen wrote: post #241
raesene9 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly, although they don't seem very slowed down at the moment... My feeling is though that digital ID can have benefits which shouldn't be discounted when considering it. Specifically some people have problems with current age verification due to lack of things like passports and driver's licenses which are often used as stand-ins for digital ID. Also it can make a lot of very nonsensical processes better. Things…

Is there something about digital IDs that make them easier to issue than passports? I understand what you are saying that they could have benefits but is that an inherent problem with passports or just bureaucracy?

Getting a passport is extremely expensive for the underclass, think of it as being worth half a month of your wages to get an idea.

That’s before you include the mandatory security screening which will cause you to travel half of the UK (on our expensive travel infrastructure!)

If I didn’t have a job lined up I wouldn’t have gotten on, my mum didn’t have one her whole life until after I had gotten mine. It’s an arduous and expensive process for the bottom 20% of society in the UK.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#308

Post by rawling »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #237
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>given their recent penchant for arresting protesters? A protest group attacked a military base causing £millions of damage. They got censured, as a terrorist organisation. "Protestors" decided they wanted to support that specific organisation, taking focus away from their message and chasing after something the government simply can't countenance: allowing protestors to ruin our defensive capabilities, at immense ex…

In glad you used scare quotes around the word "terrorists", suggesting you are as cynical about this absurd misuse of the term as the rest of us. That's the actual issue here. Yes, PA's acts of civil disobedience should be punished according to law, but classing an organisation as "terrorist", based on one (?) incident that appears to have spread literally zero terror, is appalling behaviour from a pitiful, authorita…

> one (?) incident

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0mnnje4wlro

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#309

Post by agedclock »

asdff wrote: post #196
animal_spirits wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a social credit system because it doesn’t weight your social involvement in the society (political party, school credentials, race) but rather payment history, amount of debt, types of credit

Simply things that correlate to social involvement I suppose. Quacks like a duck and all.

Not at all. It is simply a score based on your ability to manage credit, it is scored differently based on the company making the assessment.

In reality that means "have you paid off what you owe in the manner that was agreed" and does the person have any red flags e.g. County Court Judgements against their name or residence.

There are people I know that manage it properly and those that don't. It has nothing to do with wealth or class.

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