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Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

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Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#301

Post by pessimizer »

itake wrote: post #293
xeyownt wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you vote AGAINST the guy at power, and you're responsible? Broken logic.

how did their feet vote? The last time (and current time) a president was in power that I didn't agree with (and didn't vote for), I left. As a citizen, I can't fully escape taxes, but I will be my darnedest to reduce my taxable burden when I don't approve of the government.

So being an elite who escapes the consequences of what elites have done is a virtue that should be rewarded? Why would people look up to a runner? Most people don't have anywhere else to go, and love where they're from.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#302

Post by bambax »

pessimizer wrote: post #298
lazide wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is the weirdest thing involving the US you’re aware of right now, I’d highly recommend continuing to ignore the news.

You seem to love your television. I'm a middle-aged black American, I don't think Jimmy Kimmel and tariffs are worse than the what slavery and the US justice system has done to black people. I can understand if you're worried about your favorite programs being disrupted, though.

The difference is, slavery is supposed to be over? And freedom of speech is supposed to be the law of the land?

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#303

Post by toolis »

47282847 wrote: post #253
toolis wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

How do you know what that person is doing or not doing to try and get rid of those in power, and for their survival? In fact, your government is still in power, so according to your line of argument I can hold you personally responsible for any of their action and inaction and direct and indirect support of genocide. I am not going to, since I don’t share that perspective.

[flagged]

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#304

Post by e-khadem »

vintermann wrote: post #157
reeredfdfdf wrote: post #84

Most educated Iranians hate their government. The problem is that a revolution isn't easy when the government has all the guns, and the military & revolutionary guard remain loyal, and have no problem with shooting masses of innocent civilians to retain their power. Sanctions that worsen things for ordinary people really isn't going to change much in countries like this. It would be much more productive to try turn t…

A revolution also isn't easy when you know that the revolutions you could have, would be the ones supported by foreign groups that absolutely don't want your country well. USA on no account will tolerate an Iran which is both free and democratic and at all economically developed, because they don't trust a democratic public to support pro-American policies in the middle east - especially related to Israel and oil. Ju…

I would argue that not every society will thrive under a democracy. The people must be somewhat educated, politically savy, considerate, and accommodating. At least this has to be true in the beginning of a democracy where the people are laying the foundations.

Now I agree that the policies of the United States may not always be in the interest of the people from that part of the world, but a "mild" dictator like the one that the Saudi Arabia has or the one that Turkey has right now, these are better models sometimes. The SA of 50 years ago had no notion of human rights and severely under developed and could in no way support a democracy. Of course a dictatorship is not ideal, and the people of SA will have to pay a terrible price for it some day, but for now a dictatorship that "bows" to the west is not the worst thing either.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#305

Post by perching_aix »

sofixa wrote: post #284
perching_aix wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This frustrates me as well. It is so incredibly common, yet it never passes even basic scrutiny. For one, even in typical modern democracies, the active administration is chosen by like a third of the voting population via a first-pass-the-post system or a close analog of it. It's easy to ignore this when things are going okay, but becomes very uncomfortable all of a sudden when that changes. And this is to say nothi…

> For one, even in typical modern democracies, the active administration is chosen by like a third of the voting population via a first-pass-the-post system or a close analog of it "typical modern democracies" don't use the extremely terrible first past the post. It's mostly used in the UK and a few former colonies, but most of the world's democracies (even the flawed ones) have realised its shortcomings and have evo…

In its current incarnations, it is not just pure FPTP, but "mixed" with other systems: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting#Cou...

This list includes Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Germany, the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, etc...

Not that only FPTP is terrible either - it is just what people evoke when they say "well xy people voted for this, right?". In more fair systems, the voted person or party may not even have been their first or second choice, so that on its own violates this notion again too, just differently.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#306

Post by cylemons »

tgma wrote: post #158
sfn42 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People always say stuff like this, but from my pov it doesn't matter what the populace thinks. They are directly supporting their government with everything they do. They are producing goods and services, they are the army, they are the government, the people are the country. They have the power to choose who rules them if they want to. Nobody else does. Iranians are responsible for Iran's actions just like Russians…

This is an extremely important, often overlooked, point. I also know of many "educated Iranians" living in the US who voice their opinion as GP suggests, and are self-proclaimed to be anti-regime. However, they travel to Iran to visit family and friends twice a year and take an iPhone or two on their way to gift them, directly benefiting the Mullah's system. I don't think a jew would have gone back to Nazi Germany to…

> I don't think a jew would have gone back to Nazi Germany to visit family

That is because they wouldn't be having a family in Germany since they would be dead

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#307

Post by rimprobablyly »

adastra22 wrote: post #20

OP, some context from the other side might be helpful. Yes, there are fines for American companies if they do business with Iranians. That's how sanctions work as I'm sure you're aware. But the story doesn't stop there. If an American finds out they are transacting with a sanctioned individual, or citizens of a sanctioned country like Iran or North Korea, the stakes go up: $1M USD fine and up to 20 years in federal p…

Could your comment to the op be classed as "transacting with a sanctioned individual?"

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#308

Post by drstewart »

bambax wrote: post #296
slg wrote: post #64

>Iranian IPs are blocked here, due to your decision to arm Russia with drones so that they can indiscriminately massacre civilians. The "your decision" in that response is really off-putting. I know the law is what it is with sanctions like this. However, it is a failing of basic human empathy to blame other common citizens of a country for the actions of their government while we almost certainly do not endorse all…

It's also interesting if the comment comes from a US person, given that the US are primarily responsible for the political situation in Iran.

Why is it interesting? I thought the common people aren't responsible for the actions of their government?

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#309

Post by School-Cotton »

chabska wrote: post #221
adastra22 wrote: post #20

OP, some context from the other side might be helpful. Yes, there are fines for American companies if they do business with Iranians. That's how sanctions work as I'm sure you're aware. But the story doesn't stop there. If an American finds out they are transacting with a sanctioned individual, or citizens of a sanctioned country like Iran or North Korea, the stakes go up: $1M USD fine and up to 20 years in federal p…

> Nobody should be expected to take that risk I've seen this sentiment so many times from westerners. You all say this, and yet at the same time you levy economic sanctions on countries like Iran, Cuba, and North Korea, with the justification that by making their citizens lives horrific, you encourage them to rise against their government. Their authoritarian militaristic government that doesn't care for human rights…

> and yet at the same time you levy economic sanctions on countries like Iran, Cuba, and North Korea

No, I don't do this. I'm not in charge of the government. Who is "we" ?

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#310

Post by dontlaugh »

abc123abc123 wrote: post #297
tsimionescu wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The poster above was pointing out that this is a double standard. You don't expect a US citizen to risk their livelihood to help an Iranian, but you then expect an Iranian citizen to risk their livelihood AND life to topple a regime that is doing things that the USA doesn't like. So, you either take personal responsibility for enforcing sanctions yourself, or you admit that sanctions are a form of collective punishme…

[flagged]

"Leftists" are against sanctions. Ask your local socialist, anarchist or communist.
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