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React is winning by default and slowing innovation

lorenstew.art

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Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#301

Post by tannerlinsley »

chamomeal wrote: post #279
zachwill wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Super insightful. I hadn’t been able to articulate the same feelings. Even as Next seppukus itself, people will likely just fall back to React on Vite… This is my exact read on the situation, as well. I’m not sure if anything can meaningful affect React’s domination in the short-term or medium-term, even with the accumulation of poor choices.

I haven’t tried tanstack-start, but I wouldn’t be surprised it becomes the defacto react framework instead of next. Everything by Tanner Linsley is just so well thought out and the DX is amazing. If his framework is the same level of quality, without any major gaps compared to next, it will probably blow next out of the water. And Tanner is already a huge name in the typescript/react world, so I think there is actual…

Thank you for your kind words and support!

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#302

Post by austin-cheney »

spankalee wrote: post #157

Web components are the way out of this trap. Every single framework that isn't React should be wholeheartedly supporting web components to make sure that they have access to a viable ecosystem of components and utilities without having to bootstrap an entire competitor to React and it's ecosystem. While a lot of people view web components as competitors to frameworks, they don't really have to be. The just define an…

Strong disagree. Web Components are react in different clothing. You don’t need this component-based framework style architecture to write applications for the browser.

I promise writing applications for the browsers is not challenging. You don’t need big frameworks or component madness that’s more of the same.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#303

Post by FpUser »

j45 wrote: post #90
tshaddox wrote: post #87

This is mostly just a complaint about how good React is. It's so good that it's difficult for the technical benefits of alternatives to outweigh the social benefits of choosing React. Note that this is neither a major compliment to React's technical merits nor a criticism of React's competitors. In fact, I don't even disagree with the author on some of his claims, such as: > React is no longer winning by technical me…

React is great at solving complex problems. Not all problems are complex to begin with, and having a complex tool as default otherwise adds complexity to the project and also inflexibility to iterate quickly. This is in addition to having to maintain a relatively brittle ecosystem from past feature as well as future features but that can be true for more than one area of JavaScript or other technologies. Looking for…

>"React is great at solving complex problems."

The only thing it is great for is creating complex problems out of simple things.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#304

Post by alok-g »

stevage wrote: post #163

I've used React, Vue, Svelte and Solid. React is my far my least favourite of the four. Both before and after they added hooks, all the major API calls seem to have been designed for least intuitiveness. I really wish something else had won.

Which is your favorite, and why? :-)

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#305

Post by sergiotapia »

tshaddox wrote: post #87

This is mostly just a complaint about how good React is. It's so good that it's difficult for the technical benefits of alternatives to outweigh the social benefits of choosing React. Note that this is neither a major compliment to React's technical merits nor a criticism of React's competitors. In fact, I don't even disagree with the author on some of his claims, such as: > React is no longer winning by technical me…

Never heard, "man react is great!" It's always, "we can hire more easily".

Unfortunately

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#306

Post by austin-cheney »

Sigh, the article makes the blanket assumption that web applications cannot be built without some colossal framework. This is the reason I got out of JavaScript work. Most people doing the work have no idea how any of this really works and struggle to do the most trivial of tasks without a nuclear option.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#307

Post by b_e_n_t_o_n »

apatheticonion wrote: post #265
b_e_n_t_o_n wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Js has decorators for class fields so you wouldn't even need a macro for that. `@state accessor value = "hello world"` works. I do like the idea of macros in general though.

I explored JS decorators in the past but decorators are different in that they are a runtime operation that can't be statically compiled and can't be used on non-class properties. You probably know this already but macros on the other hand are just dumb expansions/computations of syntax transformed at compile time, like let result = add!(1 + 2); Would compile into let result = 3; Including macros into the JavaScript…

Oh yeah I agree it would be useful.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#308

Post by daveidol »

austin-cheney wrote: post #302
spankalee wrote: post #157

Web components are the way out of this trap. Every single framework that isn't React should be wholeheartedly supporting web components to make sure that they have access to a viable ecosystem of components and utilities without having to bootstrap an entire competitor to React and it's ecosystem. While a lot of people view web components as competitors to frameworks, they don't really have to be. The just define an…

Strong disagree. Web Components are react in different clothing. You don’t need this component-based framework style architecture to write applications for the browser. I promise writing applications for the browsers is not challenging. You don’t need big frameworks or component madness that’s more of the same.

Sure you can make a blog without a framework. But for complex applications it’s far better/easier than raw DOM manipulation or rolling your own thing.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#309

Post by b_e_n_t_o_n »

slmjkdbtl wrote: post #281
b_e_n_t_o_n wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hooks are also just JavaScript functions...?

Based on how they are run they are completely not just ordinary JavaScript functions, hook era components are also not just JavaScript functions, it's a very complicated system. React calling them "just functions" is untrue, just marketing buzz words, and it leads developers into traps.

Many functions can only be called in a certain context. Calling them "not functions" is misleading imo because it implies those functions are compiled out or something, like `$state()` in Svelte.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#310

Post by b_e_n_t_o_n »

thomasfromcdnjs wrote: post #270
b_e_n_t_o_n wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hooks are also just JavaScript functions...?

They kind of are not though, you can't call them out of order and other things which is checked at runtime by the React "engine" and will stop script execution. If they were regular functions you could call them anytime.

Many "regular" functions are context dependent.
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