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Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

sdstate.edu

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Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#301

Post by nickserv »

SoftTalker wrote: post #299
hliyan wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you back that last claim up? The push was from plastic manufacturers. https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/birth-ban-histor...

Not really. It's just my memory of the times. "Save the trees" was a very big thing for a while, in arguments for avoiding paper and cardboard packaging.

A lot of so-called environnemental awareness campaigns are the work of trade organizations or multinationals. Often they shift the blame onto the consumer, so for example it's "you need to recycle" instead of "we need to produce less".

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#302

Post by yesfitz »

mschild wrote: post #203
bn-usd-mistake wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paper straws are horrible, I don't think they should be chosen as a counterexample to skepticism about biodegradable materials.

Agree. Give me a metal one or design the cups so that I don't need one at all.

You can buy reusable metal straws online or from a variety of retailers today, and you can remove (or refuse) the lid to a cup, at which point it can be used without a straw.

Another option would be to buy canned beverages rather than fountain drinks.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#303

Post by odie5533 »

parineum wrote: post #293
odie5533 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your explanation assumes that 1) people have full knowledge of everything corporations do and 2) corporations aren't hiding what they do. Corporations actively use addiction and psychological manipulation. They're not just passively filling consumer wants. Your drug dealer analogy actually proves the opposite: we hold dealers responsible precisely because we recognize supply drives addiction. That's exactly why we ha…

> Corporations actively use addiction and psychological manipulation. They're not just passively filling consumer wants. Are you suggesting people have a plastic bag addiction? What exactly are the plastic bag manufacturers doing that is unethical? Let's use real examples instead of vague accusations. I'm not going to start with your assumptions that corporations are all evil and are definitely doing bad stuff so you…

Do you work for a plastic bag company?

The American Progressive Bag Alliance (representing Novolex, Hilex Poly, Superbag, and Advance Polybag) has:

- Spent $6+ million fighting California's bag ban through misleading ballot measures https://resource-recycling.com/plastics/2016/08/17/plastic-b...

- Funded studies claiming reusable bags harbor dangerous bacteria (while omitting that washing eliminates this) https://archive.is/p7Qza

- Sued cities implementing bag bans, forcing expensive legal defenses https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/20/plastic-bags-have-l...

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#304

Post by hedgehog »

privatelypublic wrote: post #185
hedgehog wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the units there are off, a Camry hybrid is about 100g direct CO2 per km. One widely repeated calculation has total direct + indirect emissions for a grocery bag at 200g. So 1km driven vs 1 bag is a similar magnitude of emissions.

Please be careful of such "metrics/statistics." Their very nature means they're politically and financially incentivized lean towards a higher or lower number than "the other guy." And, of course, a big number is scarier in a vacuum. What if a paper bag is 250g of emissions? The poster child for me for this is low-GWP refrigerants. Sounds good, right? Well, think about how CO2 captured filtered and compressed compare…

We have enough data to estimate the reasonable range of possibilities and exclude the upthread assertion that a ten minute car ride is similar emissions to 10k plastic bags. A degree of uncertainty need not make us helpless in the face of loud ignorance, that's how we end up giving equal weight in the media to common consensus of professionals in whatever field and political operatives with fringe beliefs but no evidence.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#305

Post by permo-w »

jraph wrote: post #236
loopdoend wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't the best solution be ensuring they all end up in an appropriate landfill rather than a river? It seems people are so against landfills that they're happy to sort their plastic and sent it on an epic journey of fraud where it ends up in a river in India. Meanwhile it could have been buried with their other trash and appropriately managed.

> happy to sort their plastic and sent it on an epic journey of fraud where it ends up in a river in India It's not like they like this outcome or are even aware of it. We can't blame the individuals who want to do things properly here. The correct solution to "broken recycling chain" is not "let's not recycle", it's "let's fix the recycling chain". The issue with non-reusable / non-recyclable stuff is that we have a…

if energy is a problem then surely we'd just build global recycling plants at geothermal hotspots? it's not like shipping is a problem. the sense I get is that the main bottleneck with recycling isn't energy, but labour. handling and sorting rubbish properly is tedious and unpleasant and the west doesn't want to spend the money that its workers would expect for it

tangentially--and I'm aware this sounds incredibly stupid, and I'm sure it is--but on the topic of geothermal hotspots, what is the downside of finding some lava/magma source deep, deep underground and just dumping rubbish in there? surely most of the fumes would just be absorbed before they reach the surface? is it just too expensive of an idea/has it been done/is it likely to have undesirable long term side-effects/do we simply not have safe access to such things

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#306

Post by darkwater »

SoftTalker wrote: post #298
darkwater wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They simply adjust the tare weight in the scale and that's it. They do it anyway with their own 1-use plastic boxes or sheets.

I've never seen a meat counter employee re-zero the scale after putting a container or wrap on it. I do occasionally see them reading -0.1oz or something initially, presumably to avoid the need for the employees to zero it out each time they weigh something.

My feeling is that they have a few presets available for the containers they use, but it totally can be changed to a custom one.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#307

Post by hedgehog »

weq wrote: post #134
zygentoma wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's such an American fear. Wash it (as you should anyways) and you'll be fine ...

Just wash some forever checmicals over the pesticides, that'll do the job. Jokes aside, i raw dog with a quick wash and im yet to have caught covid so it cant be that bad.

Unwashed produce has essentially zero risk of COVID. Other various bacterial contamination, yes, though it's very rare for those to do worse than give you an upset stomach or cause any lasting damage.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#308

Post by jtc-hn »

latexr wrote: post #77
mrmincent wrote: post #26

I would kill for this for when I’m buying fresh produce at the shops. Right now I just raw dog the produce into my basket as putting 4 apples into a plastic bag to ease the weighing and transport home seems like a selfish thing to do to the environment, but something that starts to break down soon after that sounds great.

Why don’t you bring plastic bags from home? They are very much reusable, you don’t have to throw them out. They are also quite easy to fold into small shapes and keep on you, or your car, or whatever. I have plastic bags which have endured for literal years. I also decided early on that if I forget to bring a bag, I either do without or have to go back to get one. You start remembering really fast after a few times o…

We use a collapsible (plastic) shopping basket/tub-with-handles for wet produce, the stuff the grocery store insists on spraying periodically, and things like tomatoes where we don't care if they get wet. The store clerks are used to it now and prefer it because they don't have to scan through bags and just put the produce back in the basket afterwards.

If you go this route, keep onions and garlic separate. They last longer if they stay dry.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#310

Post by IAmBroom »

jtc-hn wrote: post #309

How flammable are cellulose products? Would that be a concern for this sort of packaging?

Well, given that almost all products are (currently) ultimately containerized in cardboard, I'd say not much changes. From bags of apples in fruit boxes to your hamburger in plasticized paper, inside a pure paper bag, it's all flammable.
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