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Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

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Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Commute time should be salaried time. Salary means you're paid a fixed amount per pay period, regardless of hours worked. So including commute in your hours worked wouldn't change your salary, which is by definition a fixed amount. Did you mean that commute time should be paid hourly at an additional rate?

This depends on the juridictions.

The jurisdiction is Redmond, WA

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#302
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I've been remote for 5 years across three different companies, and if anything I've had the opposite experience: my remote coworkers are far more responsive than my on-site coworkers, who are always in meetings, in transit, having in-person chit chat, or taking a break.

I went into the office for the first time 2 months ago. The worst part was how massively distracting it was. The people who like going into the office at my work, go in to socialize. They are bored at home. It literally has nothing to do with being productive. I am sure this is all a matter of scale though. My place is really small. At the scale of Microsoft I am sure there are thousands of people really gaming the s…

For some people and some kinds of work, talking to other people is important.

And talking in person is much higher bandwidth for reasons we don’t completely understand.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#303

Just out of curiosity, how much compensation would people be willing to leave on the table in lieu of "Remote" work? (this is different to, how much would you ASK to go from remote to a new in-office job). 10%, 25%, 50%? I've worked remotely for 5 years now, and there is NO way I would return to an office based job. I even have moved to a small town where there are practically 0 tech jobs; and at this point there's N…

This question isn't very revealing because it almost entirely depends on this one variable: > maybe I am even in a privileged position financially; but at this moment in my life I would rather quit my job Someone closer to retirement with a lot of savings and low expenses will have a completely different answer than a younger person with low savings and a family. The second variable it depends on is their current sal…

You got the underlying reason for my question almost in passing:

I've been involved in hiring Software devs from US and LatAm for several years in different management positions. I wondered how feasible would be for say, a company in Mexico to compete on hiring a dev in the USA at a lower cost (normally, a Mexico dev is between 1/3 to 1/2 the price of a US one), by leveraging the value of [allowing] working Remote.

EDIT: Which actually made me think of a crazy idea: A job board called something like "Work for Less", where small companies or companies from overseas offer jobs that have compensations more focused on Quality of Living vs compensation. So for example, a job opening might have "We offer: 70% of your last salary. 3 day weekends, remote work". Or if it is say, a Mexican company, "We offer: 80% of your last salary. Comprehensive relocation help to live/work in a Mexican beach for 4 months a year. Medical Tourism coverage (don't know what this is called, but basically, help in say, taking people to high quality medical places)".

Maybe it is a stupid idea, but at the end of the day, Remote Work is one of several "Levers" for Quality of Life, and although historically the US has focused on monetary compensation, maybe newer generations value other aspects more.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should know by now that all these RTO initiatives are not grounded in any reasonable logistics nor financial reasoning. Right now all of tech is in cut mode, and RTO's are a great way to do layoffs without calling them layoffs. Note that when Google got "too many" people RTO'ing, they did layoffs anyway. If your office does try to make things stricter, it's another layoff attempt. I don't think it will work, becau…

[flagged]

If you have facts to show the class that haven't already been seen, otherwise...

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#306
Look at any Microsoft products. They all suck in their own way to be honest. Remote vs in-office won't change that. They'll still be churning put bing, 3d paint, teams etc etc. Doesn't matter that they don't hire the best, the corporate agreements they have are the only thing that matters.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#307
post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead, it seems like CEOs see RTO as a way of getting rid of 'slackers' "Seems" is an interesting word, because if even you can't locate a rational motive, whilst attempting to apologise for RTO, and are just left making some guesses, then what am I supposed to infer except that this whole thing is based on suspicion, groupthink and anxiety? "The data is clear", trumpets Microsoft in their internal email. Then wh…

You seem to be demanding some proof of the RTO side, which is a reversion to the mean, while providing none for your own side. I see and hear people talking about all the non-work things they due while being paid, and am unsurprised that their managers suspect a negative impact on productivity.

If people aren't getting their work done, then they should be having discussions with their manager that eventually lead to pip or firing if not resolved. If they are getting their work done... Who cares if I do a "non work thing" at a "work time"?

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#308
post #148

50 miles is a lot. That can easily be 2h in most big cities. To do what exactly? Sit in an open office in Redmond, jump on Teams to call with someone in Fort Lauderdale? Funny thing, I had multiple interviews with them on explicit remote roles (which are different from roles that went remote during COVID). I wonder if the policy changes there.

I live about 100 miles from NYC, which is 2-2.5 hours by car but only 1.5 hours by train. I think that that would be considered an acceptable commute time for companies with a hybrid work plan. However, every time I ask recruiters from NYC-based companies if their commute subsidy would cover the train, I get told employees have to live within a 50 mile radius of the office. Like you said, that could be 2 hours by car…

Yeah it's weird. I was just over 50 miles from NYC at some point. A place I worked remotely at was having a small team get together and they asked me to join.

Given it's a ~2 hour journey from door to office (car + train + walk) I asked if I could leave early so I didn't have to put in a ~13-14 hour day.

They said no, I had to work a full 9-6 day or use a PTO day. Meanwhile they flew a few people in from around the US and put them in a hotel.

That was a principle level role where I survived multiple rounds of layoffs so it wasn't like I was treated poorly. It's just the company wouldn't budge on their policies.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a more nuanced take here. For low performing or junior employees, remote work was generally a terrible thing that led to less productivity (and more managerial overhead). For strongly performing employees with obligations at home, there were many who preferred working at home. I fall more into the latter camp (at least I hope so) and, given I've only worked in nice offices with catered lunches, gyms, video gam…

Remote work used to be an earned privilege. Then COVID hit and everyone got a taste of it. Including the folks who discovered they could get paid to stay home and play video games and jackin' off during work hours. In a way you could say this group ruined it for everyone. But that's usually how these things go. The hammer comes down on everyone because otherwise it leads to uncomfortable questions like "why does HE g…

The only non-management/leadership people that like going into an office post-COVID are boomers.
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