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Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

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Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#301

Post by LeoPanthera »

Stratoscope wrote: post #201
Hansenq wrote: post #31

This seems like a very sensible and logical conclusion by the judge to me. An exclusive contract with Apple/Samsung isn't great, but even Apple testified that they would not have accepted any other searcch engine because everyone else was worse. You can't make restrictions on what Apple is allowed to do because Google violated some law--if Apple wants to make Google the default, they should be allowed to do so! The b…

How is Chrome a better browser than Edge? They are both just custom builds of the underlying Chromium browser. I switched from Chrome to Edge on my Windows machine a couple of months ago for the embarrassing reason that I had so many tabs open that Chrome slowed down to a crawl. (Yes, I'm one of those lazy people who uses old tabs as if they were bookmarks.) Of course I eventually opened enough tabs in Edge that it s…

> How is Chrome a better browser than Edge?

I thought this too, until I actually used Edge. It's quite shocking how much advertising there is in it. The default content sources contain an extremely high proportion of clickbait and "outrage" journalism. It genuinely worries me that this is the Windows default. It's such an awful experience.

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#302

Post by falcor84 »

tyingq wrote: post #281
kelvinjps10 wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? It's one of the most popular sites

I won't call it dead, but it is declining. Their various sources of traffic are now regurgitating Wikipedia Content (and other 3rd party sources) via uncited/unlinked AI "blurbs"...instead of presenting snippets of Wikipedia contents with links to Wikipedia to read more. It's not the only reason their traffic is declining, but it seems like a big one.

That's just plain old citogenesis[0][1], and has been in play for at least two decades, so I don't think it's any evidence of decline.

[0] https://xkcd.com/978/

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_citogenesis_...

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#303

Post by maxloh »

skybrian wrote: post #58
bergfest wrote: post #34

They should be barred from shipping experimental or non-standardized features in Chrome to prevent them from abusing their monopoly and forcing others hands by creating de-facto standards without a fair discourse. Experimental features should be allowed in special Chrome builds targeted at developers only, and not be allowed to come preinstalled on any consumer device.

Why? It seems like new API's should be tested with real users before becoming a web standard, and origin trials were a big improvement over what happened before with webkit specific CSS, etc.

This is actually the case for ECMAScript (JavaScript).

All proposals must first be implemented by some browser vendors at Stage 3:

> The proposal has been recommended for implementation.

Then, the proposal shall be included in the standard at Stage 4:

> Two compatible implementations which pass the Test262 acceptance tests

https://tc39.es/process-document/

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#304

Post by rs186 »

ajross wrote: post #167
jonas21 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not see ChatGPT and Claude as viable alternatives to search? They've certainly replaced a fair chunk of my queries.

> Do you not see ChatGPT and Claude as viable alternatives to search? This subthread is classic HN. Huge depth of replies all chiming in to state some form of the original prior: that "AI is a threat to search"... ... without even a nod to the fact that by far the best LLM-assisted search experience today is available for free at the Google prompt. And it's not even close, really. People are so set in their positions…

I have seen way more hallucination from "AI overview" than ChatGPT.

You are biased, sure, but it seems that you haven't even used ChatGPT or other similar products enough to even attempt to give a fair assessment.

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#305

Post by 8note »

xnx wrote: post #59
stackskipton wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under good Monopoly law, you would remedy the situation that got them to this point, not worry about their future. Chrome + Deals got to them to this point so that's what you unwind. If it causes Google to get weakened and AI finishes them off, that's just creative destruction at work and oh well.

The ease with which a total newcomer was able to steal share from Google is real-world evidence that there wasn't really a monopoly and that Google competitors (Bing, etc.) just sucked and didn't want to spend the money to be better.

isnt the monopoly on ads, not search?

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#306

Post by varenc »

supernova87a wrote: post #56

By the way, a pet peeve of mine right now is that reporters covering court cases (and we have so many of public interest lately) never seem to simply paste the link to the online PDF decision/ruling for us all to read, right in the story. (and another user here kindly did that for us below: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.223... ) It seems such a simple step (they must have been using the rul…

It's intentional. They don't want you engaging with content off their site. I hate it.

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#307

Post by SllX »

makeitdouble wrote: post #200
Hansenq wrote: post #31

This seems like a very sensible and logical conclusion by the judge to me. An exclusive contract with Apple/Samsung isn't great, but even Apple testified that they would not have accepted any other searcch engine because everyone else was worse. You can't make restrictions on what Apple is allowed to do because Google violated some law--if Apple wants to make Google the default, they should be allowed to do so! The b…

> Apple testified that they would not have accepted any other searcch engine "We only accept bribes from other monopolies"

This shit is just revisionist. The first time Apple and Google signed a contract to integrate Google into Safari, Google had ~32% of the search engine market, less than Yahoo! at the time, and they kept renewing that deal for over 20 years.

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#308

Post by sahila »

1oooqooq wrote: post #290
IshKebab wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI is a competitor. You know how StackOverflow is dead because AI provided an alternative? That's happening in search too. You might think "but ChatGPT isn't a search engine", and that's true. It can't handle all queries you might use a search engine for, e.g. if you want to find a particular website. But there are many many queries that it can handle. Here's just a few from my recent history: * How do I load a share…

quit that narrative! stack overflow is dead because it's garbage! try to visit it without being logged in, the entire screen is covered by four halfscreen popups! then search is useless and require to be logged. when you finally give in, the answer is deleted by overzealous power tripping users. it's a miracle it survived that long. and i think it saving grace was that nobody wanted to browse reddit at work, nothing…

It's not the only example, Chegg's another one.

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#309

Post by jridgewell »

nine_k wrote: post #251
Stratoscope wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Chrome a better browser than Edge? They are both just custom builds of the underlying Chromium browser. I switched from Chrome to Edge on my Windows machine a couple of months ago for the embarrassing reason that I had so many tabs open that Chrome slowed down to a crawl. (Yes, I'm one of those lazy people who uses old tabs as if they were bookmarks.) Of course I eventually opened enough tabs in Edge that it s…

Tangentially, there are extensions, such as "Auto tab Discard", that unload tabs from memory, thus avoiding slowdown or memory exhaustion. It allows to keep bunches of tabs as contexts / bookmarks.

This is natively supported in Chrome now: https://www.google.com/search?q=chrome+memory+saver

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#310

Post by cindyllm »

Eji1700 wrote: post #274
fidotron wrote: post #19

This is an astonishing victory for Google, they must be very happy about it. They get basically everything they want (keeping it all in the tent), plus a negotiating position on search deals where they can refuse something because they can't do it now. Quite why the judge is so concerned about the rise of AI factoring in here is beyond me. It's fundamentally an anticompetitive decision.

Much like microsoft, it's really the best possible outcome. Winning a case is one thing, as they can find other reasons to come back. Losing, and saying "but we were already punished, you got what you want" is such a barrier to EVER putting any sort of realistic reigns on them. They might as well just bury antitrust now and stop pretending.

[dead]
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