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When the sun will literally set on what's left of the British Empire

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Re: When the sun will literally set on what's left of the British Empire

#301

Post by falcor84 »

ndileas wrote: post #298
falcor84 wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't the same principle. Firstly, coastlines are more jagged because they are hit by waves perpendicularly, while rivers are shaped by water flowing along the banks, smoothing them. Secondly, the borders are typically defined by either the thalweg (greatest depth) or median line, either being smoother lines than the banks. Thirdly, river borders are then in practice defined by measuring the coordinates of particu…

You could say the exact same set of objections to shoreline paradox.

What? Neither of those three applies to a shoreline.

Re: When the sun will literally set on what's left of the British Empire

#302

Post by graemep »

lyu07282 wrote: post #271
graemep wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Th vast majority suffered under various Indian empires too. The lower castes suffered millennia of oppression (and still do) - imagine millennia of Jim Crow or apartheid. Some of them benefited hugely from British rule as a result, probably including my mother's ancestors.

The caste system itself is wildly considered to be exacerbated and promoted by British colonial rule in post colonial studies, not unlike the US empire promoting sectarianism in the aftermath of the Iraq war. The caste divisions did exist before British rule but it wasn't as systematic and unified across India as after. Boy how do we even talk about neocolonialism today if there are still people with full on colonial…

They were highly systematic and oppressive. Castes have been separated for long enough and strongly enough for there to be detectable genetic differences.

Caste is far older than western colonialism. The genetic evidence shows that castes oppression has been enough to suppress intermarriage for millennia:

https://www.livescience.com/38751-genetic-study-reveals-cast...

> Boy how do we even talk about neocolonialism today if there are still people with full on colonialist sympathies holy shit

How do we talk to people who are in denial bout historic oppression?

Re: When the sun will literally set on what's left of the British Empire

#303

Post by awesome_dude »

imtringued wrote: post #249
awesome_dude wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take a better look at Fiji - the indigenous people there have been outnumbered by the people bought into the country from India (by the English) The Fijians have had multiple coup, and changes to their constitution to ensure that only indigenous people can run the country Whether I agree with that or not is beside the point, the point is that what you claim is false, what can happen has happened elsewhere, and where…

From what I've heard a lot of immigrants to New Caledonia came from Fiji. The problem isn't that Fiji is being overrun by Indians, it's that the Fiji people themselves are abandoning the island.

From what you "heard"

Right, given that there have been two other... trolls.. arguing in bad faith, putting words into peoples mouths, claiming that nobody is engaging in their true argument

I want to see, from you, citations, and factual evidence thatyour claims are valid.

Re: When the sun will literally set on what's left of the British Empire

#304

Post by awesome_dude »

StopDisinfo910 wrote: post #259
awesome_dude wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you intentionally entirely missing the point? Ok angry dude.. what point am I supposedly "intentionally missing" > why it should be done Yes, why should people have the right to self determination of a land they have occupied for thousands of years. > Indian in Fiji is entirely irrelevant here Since f*cking when? > unless you think a military dictatorship supported by the church is somehow what New Caledonia ne…

I’m not angry. You have asked me to make an effort but you refuse to genuinely engage with the topic. You are pretending to have no opinion while clearly pushing that New Caledonia should legitimately be given back to the Kanak but at the same time pretend you don’t which makes discussing difficult. It’s pretty clear to me that you come at the issue from a postcolonial, anti-imperialist view point somehow rooted in p…

You keep making up bad faith arguments then claim nobody is engaging with you.

Re: When the sun will literally set on what's left of the British Empire

#305

Post by ndileas »

Jensson wrote: post #300
ndileas wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could say the exact same set of objections to shoreline paradox.

But most borders are not defined as "on the shoreline", they are defined using something reliable.

Exactly. The coastline paradox is a mathematical curiousity, not a practical objection to measuring things. Coastlines are not infinite length in practice. You define a system of measurement then a length in that system

Re: When the sun will literally set on what's left of the British Empire

#306

Post by ndileas »

falcor84 wrote: post #301
ndileas wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could say the exact same set of objections to shoreline paradox.

What? Neither of those three applies to a shoreline.

Physical shorelines instantiations of a true fractal are always limited. I'd go so far as to say that there is no such real object in the world.

Re: When the sun will literally set on what's left of the British Empire

#307

Post by StopDisinfo910 »

awesome_dude wrote: post #304
StopDisinfo910 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not angry. You have asked me to make an effort but you refuse to genuinely engage with the topic. You are pretending to have no opinion while clearly pushing that New Caledonia should legitimately be given back to the Kanak but at the same time pretend you don’t which makes discussing difficult. It’s pretty clear to me that you come at the issue from a postcolonial, anti-imperialist view point somehow rooted in p…

You keep making up bad faith arguments then claim nobody is engaging with you.

The question is not if you are engaging with me but with the issue.

As you keep coming back to the Fiji example, refuse to admit the postulate your clearly holds, refuse to consider the moral question of what should be done with descendants of settlers, I’m personally standing by my opinion that you are the one using bad faith here. I’m personally entirely fine with leaving the discussion as is as an illustration of my vision of the New Caledonian issue. I don’t think it makes me look bad.

Re: When the sun will literally set on what's left of the British Empire

#308

Post by baud147258 »

awesome_dude wrote: post #138
ebonnafoux wrote: post #117

The sun does not set on the French Empire is still alive with french Guyanna in South America, Mayotte and la Réunion in Africa and New Caledonia and French Polynesia in Pacific Ocean.

The indigenous people of New Caledonia are currently in a deep battle (politically) with the French colonialists for the governance of the lands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_New_Caledonia_unrest

Burning cars and rioting after the last three referendums (which had excluded 100k people who had arrived after 1998) didn't go your way is sure a way to get ahead in politics.

Also what would be your proposed solution? Make the island be independent and let the Kanak expulse anyone who isn't like them? Because such blood and soil were usually spouted by people wearing brown shirts in Europe in the 30s.

Re: When the sun will literally set on what's left of the British Empire

#309

Post by lyu07282 »

graemep wrote: post #302
lyu07282 wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The caste system itself is wildly considered to be exacerbated and promoted by British colonial rule in post colonial studies, not unlike the US empire promoting sectarianism in the aftermath of the Iraq war. The caste divisions did exist before British rule but it wasn't as systematic and unified across India as after. Boy how do we even talk about neocolonialism today if there are still people with full on colonial…

They were highly systematic and oppressive. Castes have been separated for long enough and strongly enough for there to be detectable genetic differences. Caste is far older than western colonialism. The genetic evidence shows that castes oppression has been enough to suppress intermarriage for millennia: https://www.livescience.com/38751-genetic-study-reveals-cast... > Boy how do we even talk about neocolonialism to…

I'm not I'm saying the British colonial rule made it worse, here is a good summary:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-48619734

and:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_India#During_B...

Re: When the sun will literally set on what's left of the British Empire

#310

Post by protocolture »

wqaatwt wrote: post #289
protocolture wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lmao no. You seem like you have podcast brain. Ireland and Wales are no where near where they would be without being colonised. Let alone states further from the core of the empire. >The 20th century decline of the British empire is one of civilization's worst failures Greatest successes. Honestly it could only be better if the britons pushed the angles and saxons back into the ocean.

Wales and in a large part Ireland were conquered long before British Empire was a thing, though.

The correct labels werent yet applied it doesnt count!

Bear in mind that a lot of the bad policies only started to be repealed in like the 60s. And that among other things, both suffered through a lot of the forced cultural assimilation the british empire was peddling.

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