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Updates to Consumer Terms and Privacy Policy

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Re: Updates to Consumer Terms and Privacy Policy

#301

Post by ornornor »

JohnnyMarcone wrote: post #25
troad wrote: post #8

You can opt out, but the fact that it's opt-in by default and made to look like a simple T/C update prompt leaves a sour taste in my mouth. The five year retention period seems... excessive. I wonder if they've buried anything else objectionable in the new terms. It was the kick in the pants I needed to cancel my subscription.

I got a pop-up when I opened the app explaining the change and an option to opt out. That seems very transparent to me.

It’s not. And also whether you move the toggle to on or off, you still have to click accept which really isn’t clear whether you’re accepting to share your data or not.

Never mind the complete 180 on privacy.

Re: Updates to Consumer Terms and Privacy Policy

#302

Post by bluecalm »

Syzygies wrote: post #193

Claude assists me in my math research. The scenario that concerns me is that Claude learns unpublished research ideas from me as we chat and code. Claude then suggests these same ideas to someone else, who legitimately believes this is now their work. Clearly commercial accounts use AI to assist in developing intellectual product, and privacy is mandatory. The same can apply to individuals.

Math research or anything new/clever in a particular niche. Imagine you optimized a piece of code to get an advantage or came up with some clever trick to solve a common problem in your niche and then everyone gets it from free from Claude believing, as you pointed out, that it's now their work.

I had this exact conversation with my business partner a few days ago. Our "secret sauce" might not be worth that much after many years but still I am not comfortable exposing it to Claude. Fortunately it's very easy to separate in our project so Claude gets the other parts and is very helpful.

Re: Updates to Consumer Terms and Privacy Policy

#303

Post by Deegy »

Syzygies wrote: post #193

Claude assists me in my math research. The scenario that concerns me is that Claude learns unpublished research ideas from me as we chat and code. Claude then suggests these same ideas to someone else, who legitimately believes this is now their work. Clearly commercial accounts use AI to assist in developing intellectual product, and privacy is mandatory. The same can apply to individuals.

If your work was truly novel, wouldn't the odds of it showing up in later models be extremely low given that these are probabilistic?

In a sense these machines are outputting the aggregate of the collective thoughts of the commons. In order for concepts to be output they have to be quite common in the training data. Which works out kind of nice for privacy and innovation because by the time concepts are common enough to show up through inference they probably deserve to be part of the public knowledge (IP aside).

Re: Updates to Consumer Terms and Privacy Policy

#304

Post by SoftTalker »

Klonoar wrote: post #290
Aurornis wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you get the pop-up about the new terms, select the “opt out” option. Then your chats will not be used for training.

Well, theoretically they won’t. Anyone who’s worked in an engineering team is familiar with someone forgetting to check ‘if(doNotDoThisCondition)’. This is why (among many other reasons) opt-in is more user respecting here than opt-out.

Forgetting. Riiighht.

Re: Updates to Consumer Terms and Privacy Policy

#305

Post by simpaticoder »

vdfs wrote: post #241
Syzygies wrote: post #193

Claude assists me in my math research. The scenario that concerns me is that Claude learns unpublished research ideas from me as we chat and code. Claude then suggests these same ideas to someone else, who legitimately believes this is now their work. Clearly commercial accounts use AI to assist in developing intellectual product, and privacy is mandatory. The same can apply to individuals.

> Claude assists me in my math research. > Claude then suggests these same ideas to someone else, who legitimately believes this is now their work. Won't this mean that claude assisted you with someone else work? Sure it's not from a "chat" but claude doesn't really know anything other than it's training data

There is a stark difference between using the public web to do research and searching through your colleagues' private notebooks and discussions to do research.

Re: Updates to Consumer Terms and Privacy Policy

#306

Post by echelon »

mapontosevenths wrote: post #271
echelon wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> while having only a single digit percent fraction of active users. That doesn't matter when their revenue per user is as high as it is. They're at $5B ARR and rapidly growing.

The "killer app" isn't here yet. Wait until smart glasses or watches with AI overtake cellphones as the primary method of human interaction with computers and most websites are replaced with API's that only AI's really ever use.

> most websites are replaced

This is already happening.

> Wait until smart glasses or watches with AI overtake cellphones

Smartphones are crystalized perfection. It's such a peak design. The size, form factor, sensors, input/output modalities, and generalization are perfect. The reason companies are trying to supplant it is that they need to get out from under Google and Apple's control. It's not that anything is wrong with the smartphone.

VR has a long way to go in terms of hardware problems.

XR/AR is ridiculous. It's creepy, unstylish, and the utility is highly questionable. Nobody is going to want to be a walking ad.

Re: Updates to Consumer Terms and Privacy Policy

#307

Post by lenerdenator »

goalieca wrote: post #115
sigmoid10 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The are valued at $170 Billion. Not quite the same as, but in same order of magnitude as OpenAI - while having only a single digit percent fraction of active users. They probably need to prepare for the eventual user data sellout, as it is becoming increasingly more obvious that none of the big players has a real and persistent tech leadership anymore. But millions and millions of users sharing their deepest thoughts…

Companies all seem to turn against their users whenever they have revenue/earnings trouble.

That's just shareholder capitalism, dude.

Re: Updates to Consumer Terms and Privacy Policy

#308

Post by superposeur »

Everyone seems to be unsurprised by this move, but I’m genuinely shocked. What a shoot your own foot business decision. Google, evil though it be, doesn’t post the text of your gmails in its search results because who would consider using Gmail after that? This is the llm equivalent. Am I missing something?

Re: Updates to Consumer Terms and Privacy Policy

#310

Post by threetonesun »

klabb3 wrote: post #177
JCM9 wrote: post #67

Not a surprise. All the major players have reached the limits of training on existing data—they’re already training on essentially the whole internet plus a bunch of content they allegedly stole (hence various lawsuits). There haven’t been any major breakthroughs in model architecture from the major players recently and thus they’re now in a battle for more data to train on. They need data, and they want YOUR data, n…

> They need data, and they want YOUR data, now, and are gonna do increasingly shady things to get it. But unlike the 100s of data brokers that also want your data, they have an existing operational funnel of your data already that you voluntary give them every day. All they need is dark pattern ToS changes and manage the minor PR issue. People will forget about this in a week.

Seems hard to believe legal teams at corporations are going to forget this in a week. I've always assumed the market play for these companies was spinning off an "Amazon basics" version of other companies software, this seems like another step towards that.
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