Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Neuralink 'Participant 1' says his life has changed

fortune.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 481 posts

Re: Neuralink 'Participant 1' says his life has changed

#301

Post by tomhow »

m00x wrote: post #285
tomhow wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe spend more time researching than hating and you'll end up with a more factual state of the world. The comment you were replying to was the kind of dismissal we want to avoid on HN, but we need you to avoid swipes like this on HN. The comment would been fine without that last line. Please try to observe the guidelines, especially these ones: Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Ed…

Is my last line not something we want to teach people in this community? It's not snark if it's sincere. I'd rather use encouraging words than moderation but use the method you prefer, it's your platform.

I believe you when you insist you were trying to be encouraging. It’s just that it didn’t come across that way, and several other users flagged and downvoted it, presumably for that reason. We often underestimate how our words come across. What seems like reasonable, friendly advice when formulated in our minds can end up coming across as a snarky personal attack by the time end turns into words on a screen read by strangers.

It’s all good, please just be mindful of this and think about how you can avoid your intended sentiment being lost next time you post this kind of comment.

Re: Neuralink 'Participant 1' says his life has changed

#302

Post by distortionfield »

thinkingemote wrote: post #290
distortionfield wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exploiting? I’m lefty, but this dude volunteered for the procedure and was fully reimbursed. I’m having a really hard time seeing “exploited” on this one.

According to the left exploitation can occur when people choose and are paid for it. For example demeaning work. Also much of slavery, indentured servitude in the past was chosen and fully reimbursed. Most classic lefties would say all work is exploitation under capitalism. It's the idea of individualism mostly seen on the right wing and the modern/American democratic left that says that people make free and rational…

I’m familiar with those applications of exploitation, too, but they also wouldn’t apply here. This wasn’t demeaning work and wasn’t predicated on necessity, past their disability.

And of course, all work is exploitation under capitalism (from a true lefty point of view) but I didn’t perceive the original comment as referring to that level of exploitation. Just saying that this isn’t the hill to die on if one wants a case for capitalist exploitation.

I do understand the dangers of others being exploited down the line but again, that wasn’t what OP was saying either.

Really, if this is exploitative it’s only an indictment of profit incentives in healthcare, which are abhorrent.

Re: Neuralink 'Participant 1' says his life has changed

#303

Post by lynx97 »

positron26 wrote: post #275
ckemere wrote: post #227

I think that the negativity here is unfortunate. The reality is that it’s very hard to see a normal VC level return on the $100M+ Elon and friends have invested here. And don’t let anyone fool you - this is the fundamental reason the BCI field has moved slowly. If Neuralink proceeds to a scenario where quadriplegic patients can get reliable (ie lifelong) control of their computers for less than $100k that will be a h…

Probably a decent reason that all such augmentations need to be built on open technologies. If no provider can guarantee future support, only open strategies are even viable for users.

Open Source Accessibility isn't sustainable right now. How on earth do you imagine open medical hardware to ever reach a level where it is generally useful to people with disabilities?

In general, I find the negativity in this whole thread very sad. If I were in the situation were I was looking forward for technology like this, and I'd read the comments here, they would make me very sad. Because in essence, I would learn that politics is more important to some SV people than actual progress.

Frankly, if Elon ended up creating a technology that helps people, I wouldn't care about his politics at all. I'd be damn grateful for someone investing in something that ended up helping me. But obviously, politics trumps empathy here, which is very very sad.

I am still a magnitude off regarding 100k for assistive technologies, but sufficiently large braille displays cost 10k$ to 15k$ in Europe. That is a plain display of 80!!! characters in a single line. No 1080p, mind you. This has been the case since I am alive. The costs are mostly driven by redistriibutors, who usually add around 70% when importing from the US. Do I feel exploited? No, I am glad the technology exists. And frankly, if you have any empathy left, you should as well.

Re: Neuralink 'Participant 1' says his life has changed

#304

Post by jibal »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #297
crote wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a brain chip. How do you feel about being blind and paralyzed? Or comatose? Or dead? How about never-ending pain or constant bright flashes? What if they go bankrupt, and something happens to the implant? Brain surgery isn't exactly an industry where "move fast and break things" is an acceptable approach - especially when you are the patient. Considering Neuralink's historical record, going first sounds like a h…

How do you feel about not having THE sense that defines your whole life? This is a matter of personal choice and weighing risks vs your life as it is. Nobody is forcing anybody to have the chip - my question was about the reasons behind not taking it for someone who is blind, as a matter of curiosity. It is obvious that everyone will react differently. As I mentioned, my wife went for that and it was quite a ride ini…

Vision is not the sense that defines the whole life of a blind person.

Re: Neuralink 'Participant 1' says his life has changed

#305

Post by BrandoElFollito »

jibal wrote: post #304
BrandoElFollito wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you feel about not having THE sense that defines your whole life? This is a matter of personal choice and weighing risks vs your life as it is. Nobody is forcing anybody to have the chip - my question was about the reasons behind not taking it for someone who is blind, as a matter of curiosity. It is obvious that everyone will react differently. As I mentioned, my wife went for that and it was quite a ride ini…

Vision is not the sense that defines the whole life of a blind person.

Of course, this is why I gave the counterexample of the case where it would be.

Re: Neuralink 'Participant 1' says his life has changed

#306

Post by lynx97 »

vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #132
fracus wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've read, if you are blind from birth, but visual signals were suddenly restored, your brain wouldn't know how to process them. Blind from birth = blind forever. I'm not certain though.

I think the brain would adapt. It may take a while but the brain is very flexible and adaptable.

If you are young enough, yes. But after a while, the neuroplasticity is simply not enough. Seeing is a complex enough process, if you miss learning it in your childhood, the train is gone. This is a very common error people make, announcing implant technologies to grown blind people as if the cure was just around the corner. It isn't. You will never adapt to a point where the vision you just gained is actually useful. Imagine trying to learn to read print, at 30, with a pixelated implant? It is a naiv pixie dream of sighted people.

Re: Neuralink 'Participant 1' says his life has changed

#307

Post by jibal »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #291
NoPicklez wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I don't have a similar thought process as someone who thinks going no sugar is the right way to achieve weight loss. The reason you might think twice about going first is for that exact reason, there are risks. Plenty of blind people would prefer to stay as they are than be left worse off to a greater degree after undergoing the implant.

How would you go for weight loss then? This is calories in - calories out. And as for which state one wants to be in, this is a matter of personal choice. I know that I will commit suicide right after I get a diagnosis of, say, Alzheimer's (after cleaning up my stuff). If I went blind and had a reasonable chance to get back to sight, then I would also go for it, weighing the risks. It all boils down to what someone p…

One cannot measure calories out (other than deducing it from calories in and weight change), which is a complex function of diet, metabolism, and a host of other factors.

As for the rest--your other posts implicitly assume that everyone else shares your choices and priorities--and if not then they aren't relevant. (BTW, there is strong evidence showing neither you nor anyone else knows what they would do after receiving such diagnoses.)

Re: Neuralink 'Participant 1' says his life has changed

#308

Post by jibal »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #305
jibal wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vision is not the sense that defines the whole life of a blind person.

Of course, this is why I gave the counterexample of the case where it would be.

Of course your statement is false? Strange.

Re: Neuralink 'Participant 1' says his life has changed

#309

Post by lynx97 »

cameroncarlg wrote: post #152
xyst wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'll let other desperate people go first FTFY.

Calling them desperate seems rude. Why judge the participants? Not everyone has access to other SOTA solutions and if this is the next best thing for them, why not.

The rhetoric in this thread is generally laden with patronisation. I know that phenomenon as a person with a disability. Left leaning people are quick to speak for me and try to patronize on my situation. It is, frankly, plain virtue signaling. I could do without that, thank you very much.

Re: Neuralink 'Participant 1' says his life has changed

#310

Post by positron26 »

lynx97 wrote: post #303
positron26 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably a decent reason that all such augmentations need to be built on open technologies. If no provider can guarantee future support, only open strategies are even viable for users.

Open Source Accessibility isn't sustainable right now. How on earth do you imagine open medical hardware to ever reach a level where it is generally useful to people with disabilities? In general, I find the negativity in this whole thread very sad. If I were in the situation were I was looking forward for technology like this, and I'd read the comments here, they would make me very sad. Because in essence, I would l…

By commercializing open source technology development so that the paying non-programmer and the ecosystem dependent SME's and Fortune 500's can meaningfully drive development of what they need.

You can see my gloriously broken prototype at PrizeForge. Currently between iterations and still not quite viable enough to properly operate.

Post reply on HN