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The Framework Desktop is a beast

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Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#301

Post by wtallis »

aesh2Xa1 wrote: post #285
wtallis wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's fair to describe MDM as a firmware-level feature. I think it's entirely implemented and enforced within the environment of a booted macOS; the firmware isn't going to be bringing up a whole network stack to phone home. If you had Linux on a MDM-enrolled Mac there wouldn't be anything MDM-related running during or after the boot process. But presumably any sane MDM config would prevent the end user…

Yeah, your point about implementation is correct -- much of the MDM functionality runs within macOS. But, eh, I still think it's fair to describe it as a feature of the firmware. The enrollment and prevention of removal have firmware-level components through Apple's Secure Boot and System Integrity Protection. A user can't simply disable MDM because these firmware-level protections prevent tampering with the enrollme…

I think it's important to make a distinction between secure boot features that are local-only, and remote management features. The "Remote Device Management baked into firmware" claim above carries with it some pretty important implications that are, as far as I can tell, not actually true.

It's not too different from scaremongering about Intel ME/AMT which is often maligned even in the context of computers that don't have the necessary Intel NICs for the remote management features.

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#302

Post by microtonal »

zargon wrote: post #282
microtonal wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would rather say it's a Chinese conglomerate. E.g. Think.* are said to be designed in the US, Taiwan, and Japan. They are often assembled locally (e.g. my ThinkStation was assembled in Hungary). They have offices in many local markets and can be held accountable for warranty, issues, etc. I agree with your general point though, 'Chinese' does not mean bad quality, warranty, etc. It's more a property of a bunch of C…

> As an aside, Lenovo are pretty awesome. These things would be important if they made products that actually work. My T14s Gen 3 AMD simply doesn’t work. Half the time I go to wake it from sleep, the firmware has crashed and I have to hard-reset it. I spent months trying to get Lenovo to fix this. They did replace the motherboard twice (once on-site, once shipped to them) and eventually replaced the entire laptop wi…

Sorry to hear that! I have a T14 (non-s) Gen 5 AMD and everything works great, also suspend-resume. A few years ago I had a Gen 1 AMD and it was certainly much worse. It would resume, but the trackpad or trackpoint would often not come up. But I'm very happy with the Gen 5.

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#304

Post by qingcharles »

Fnoord wrote: post #167
ilaksh wrote: post #111

How does that Framework Desktop compare with the "GMKtec AI Mini Ryzen Al Max+ 395 128GB" mini PC? I suspect this one is very similar hardware and a slightly better deal if you give up the cool factor of Framework. Although I don't really know. Anyone compared them head-to-head?

Hehe, that is just a Chinese company, isn't it? Say bye bye to warranty and support, repairability. I am not saying you shouldn't consider it but describing Framework merely as cool factor is the other extreme.

I've been turned off GMKTek since I was helping a buddy fresh install Windows and found their drivers are on a Google Drive folder they don't pay for which hits its download quota regularly and so you have to go back day after day and play roulette and hope you get in at the right time. And the drivers are literally nowhere else that I could find, even with driver search tools.

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#305

Post by rgrieselhuber »

starkparker wrote: post #267
microtonal wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My main worry about all the Minisforum, Beelink, etc. PCs is: potential lack of UEFI firmware updates (does anyone have experience with how good they are with updates?) and potential backdoors in the UEFI firmware (either intentionally or unintentionally). A China-aligned/sponsored group has made an UEFI rootkit targetting ASUS/Gigabyte mainboards: https://www.spiceworks.com/it-security/vulnerability-managem... Why n…

As a Framework 13 owner, their firmware update history isn't that great either.

Any more details you can share?

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#306

Post by croes »

esafak wrote: post #261
croes wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it doesn't have MacOS, Apple's service or resale value. If the purpose is running LLMs non of that matters. But Linux support is an advantage. Does the M4 have that?

Why doesn't it matter? Does your computer magically stop needing to be serviced or eventually sold because you're running LLMs? I run Linux containers all the time.

None of my computers ever needed service.

The LLM point is that Linux is better suited for most AI tools and their toolchains

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#307

Post by heraldgeezer »

rs186 wrote: post #143
heraldgeezer wrote: post #133

Not really. A laptop CPU defeats the purpose. Get a 9800X3D for gaming will be waaaay faster or Threadripper for productivity or the 9950X3D chips with 16 cores/32 threads. Why this laptop crap when you can get a nice PC case. Then again he thinks the Fractal North was "bulky"? What?

You completely missed the point. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44853961

Nice is subjective. Fractal cases he compares to looks nicer to me.

Quiet? A real PC with bigger fans = more airflow = quieter

Smaller - yes, this is the tradeoff

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#308

Post by heraldgeezer »

mkl wrote: post #156
heraldgeezer wrote: post #133

Not really. A laptop CPU defeats the purpose. Get a 9800X3D for gaming will be waaaay faster or Threadripper for productivity or the 9950X3D chips with 16 cores/32 threads. Why this laptop crap when you can get a nice PC case. Then again he thinks the Fractal North was "bulky"? What?

The 9950X appears in one of the benchmarks in the article, and this machine beats it. It has 16 cores and 32 threads itself. You might want to read more details instead of dismissing it out of ignorance.

okay the new real PC CPUs are better. there.

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#309

Post by heraldgeezer »

sliken wrote: post #125
Jtsummers wrote: post #2

> In some ways, the Framework Desktop is a curious machine. Desktop PCs are already very user-repairable! So why is Framework even bringing their talents to this domain? In the laptop realm, they're basically alone with that concept, but in the desktop space, it's rather crowded already. Yet it somehow still makes sense. And even more curious, Framework Desktop is deliberately less repairable than their laptops. They…

Dunno, nice, quiet, small machine, using standard parts (power supply, motherboard, etc). If you want the high memory bandwidth get the strix halo, if not get any normal PC. Sure apple has the bandwidth as well, and also soldered memory as well. If you want dimms and you want the memory bandwidth get a threadripper (4 channel), siena (6 channel), thread ripper pro (8 channel), or Epyc (12 channel). But be prepared to…

Nice is subjective. Fractal cases he compares to looks nicer to me.

Quiet? A real PC with bigger fans = more airflow = quieter

Smaller - yes, this is the tradeoff

GPU is always best separate, that is true since the ages.

"double the power" oh no from 100W to 200W wowwww

"quadruple your space" - not a problem

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#310

Post by ohdeargodno »

christophilus wrote: post #263
ohdeargodno wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My test suite currently runs in ~6 seconds on 9700K Absolutely nothing. 6 seconds is about the time it will take you to tab to your terminal, press up arrow, find your test task and run it. There's no amount of money that makes it go from 6 to 3, and no world in which there's any value to it. In addition, upgrading to a 13900K means you're playing the Intel Dance: sockets have (again) changed, in an (again) incompat…

It’s really nice to save and have your tests automatically run and go green (or red) nearly instantly. There is value to that. Performance matters.

That's called not rerunning all the tests in your project and having test harnesses that know of module boundaries.

In addition, considering "saving" is something that happens on pretty much any non-code interaction, it means your tests are broken half the time when you're working. That's useless noise.

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