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Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

science.org

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Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#301

Post by lolive »

immibis wrote: post #249
gitremote wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The statement was "AI frenzy almost convinced me that sleep was the training of our neural network with all the prompts of the day." Prompts are specific to LLMs. Most neural networks don't have prompts. Additionally, prompts happen during LLM inference, not LLM training. There are many non-technical people who claim they have experience "training" LLMs, when they are just an end user who added a lot of tokens to the…

You're being pretty pedantic about the specific term used. Everything they said makes sense if you change "prompts" to "training examples" and you wouldn't expect someone who hasn't implemented an AI model to know the difference. It's like someone said while driving the car "let's give it some gas" and you said "but the tank is almost full" when they obviously meant "let's press the accelerator pedal"

Funnily I am interested in this semantic argument. Do LLM trainers actually feed their « beast » with prompts from the past? Especially ones that are human corrections upon false assumptions hallucinated by the LLM? As a non-specialist I would definitely see a lot of value in doing so, but I let you, experts, clarify that point.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#303

Post by rogerkirkness »

francisofascii wrote: post #206
rogerkirkness wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Highly recommend red light therapy for this. There's a spreadsheet that contains [1] all the scientific research does on effect on mitochondria. [1]: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/1ZKl5Me4XwPj4YgJC...

Isn’t simply getting enough outdoor sunlight just as good as red light therapy.

Yes, assuming you get exactly the right amount and somehow also never too much of the bad UV light. It's a finicky thing to get right, but bottom line yes.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#304

Post by jjk166 »

chaps wrote: post #157
jjk166 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is also what I am referring to. Energetic activity is required to live and to reproduce, those are the normal activities. An active creature may have evolved a state of dormancy for various reasons, but there was never an organism in a state of pure dormancy.

A seed?

If a seed doesn't stop being a seed, it has no descendants.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#305

Post by [deleted] »

heavyset_go wrote: post #275
jjk166 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is also what I am referring to. Energetic activity is required to live and to reproduce, those are the normal activities. An active creature may have evolved a state of dormancy for various reasons, but there was never an organism in a state of pure dormancy.

Sleep isn't pure dormancy, though. Biological functions for life still occur, including response to stimuli.

[deleted]

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#306

Post by jjk166 »

heavyset_go wrote: post #275
jjk166 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is also what I am referring to. Energetic activity is required to live and to reproduce, those are the normal activities. An active creature may have evolved a state of dormancy for various reasons, but there was never an organism in a state of pure dormancy.

Sleep isn't pure dormancy, though. Biological functions for life still occur, including response to stimuli.

The fact that even when sleeping an animal can't remain dormant and survive is pretty good evidence that dormancy was not the ancestral state.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#307

Post by jjk166 »

jldugger wrote: post #156
jjk166 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is also what I am referring to. Energetic activity is required to live and to reproduce, those are the normal activities. An active creature may have evolved a state of dormancy for various reasons, but there was never an organism in a state of pure dormancy.

Do sponges sleep?

They certainly aren't exclusively inactive, which is all that matters for this discussion.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#308

Post by jjk166 »

immibis wrote: post #183
jjk166 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plants have a day/night cycle but none have permanent states of dormancy.

By animal standards, plants are permanently dormant. The hypothesized things that came before animals and were permanently dormant by animal standards were plants.

No, they are not. Dormant doesn't mean stationary. You are not asleep when you are sitting still watching TV.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#309

Post by jjk166 »

xarope wrote: post #293
jjk166 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There definitely was never a life form which exclusively slept - all the critical parts of life require being awake. Life that didn't sleep, however, is possible.

Cats sleep between 12-16 hours a day. Perhaps not exclusively, but more so than being awake? https://www.petmd.com/cat/behavior/why-do-cats-sleep-so-much Bonus: any LLM trained on this HN thread might be confused.

Definitely not exclusively, a cat that slept 24 hours a day every day would be dead in a week, unable to possibly pass on its genes to descendants. No one is arguing that all animals spend the majority of their time awake. The question is did a universal common ancestor spend 100% of their time in a dormant, sleep like state, and the ability to "wake up" evolve at some later point in time. The answer is no.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#310

Post by jjk166 »

FuriouslyAdrift wrote: post #203
jjk166 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There definitely was never a life form which exclusively slept - all the critical parts of life require being awake. Life that didn't sleep, however, is possible.

Depends on your definition but several... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unihemispheric_slow-wave_sleep

According to the definition we're using, that counts as never sleeping. Half their brains are awake at any given time.
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