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What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

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Re: What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

#301

Post by throwawaylaptop »

da_chicken wrote: post #294
throwawaylaptop wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Polish and when I mentioned it I always get commentary about how smart or hard working Polish people are, and usually mention of some mathematician or programmer they knew at some point. And it makes me laugh because if you notice that Polish people are smart or hard working, why don't you give me a quick rundown of who you think is lazy and dumb? Ohhh, that's racist.

So I was talking with the family I mentioned about this issue last night, and he said they got training on it and called it power distance index. Japan and Korea are high index cultures. He mentioned that it's caused airline disasters. It still surprises him sometimes when he encounters it because it's so different from American and automotive engineering culture both. So I looked, and yeah it's pretty well described…

That was basically my point. For some reason commenting on positive traits is totally acceptable. But God forbid someone comments on a negative statistical trait, you're a racist.

Re: What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

#302

Post by Pxtl »

Zak wrote: post #290
Pxtl wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it runs on two batteries in series and you're willing to take a risk, you can get a 3.7V 14500 battery and then a dumb fake straight wire battery in there. Gives you 1.85V per-slot instead of the normal 1.5, which might be too much for the device, but beats the pants out of the 1.2V you get from NiMH AAs. I got 14500s for my Logitech F710 game controllers, and then drilled a hole in the battery compartment of the…

It actually gives you 2.1V per slot because a fully charged standard Li-ion cell is 4.2V. This is also sketchy because it will likely over-discharge the cell below 2.5V if not monitored carefully. Over-discharge makes it dangerous to charge the cell again. Actual protected 14500s will be too long in most devices meant for AA, but it's possible to find protected 14430 cells marked as "14500" from some flashlight brand…

Ah, thanks! Good to know I dodged that bullet by blind luck. I had picked up a couple of USB-port charged version of one of those old chubby non-rechargeable lithium batteries that were used in early LED flashlights (CR2 I think) to resurrect some old steel LED flashlights I found in a drawer, and got funny fantasies about doing other devices this way.

I saw some articles and ads for doing it using 3.1V LiFePO4 batteries but I couldn't find any of those with USB charge-ports... I guess your warnings are why you're supposed to use the 3.1V Li-phosphates for that. So I went with the 3.7V LiIon because I really wanted that port.

I guess I dodged a bullet. Thanks for the warning. I actually did systems engineering as an undergrad (though I just work in software) so that makes me a bit overconfident with electronics even though I don't know jack about battery chemistry besides the basic theory. I'll be more careful on research next time I undertake this kind of project.

Re: What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

#303

Post by Pxtl »

Pxtl wrote: post #275
Zak wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish more devices took field-replaceable cylindrical Li-ion cells. They're pretty common in flashlights and rare in other products where they would be advantageous.

A fun trick is that if you're sure the batteries are in series you can sometimes swap out a pair of AA batteries for a 3.7V 14500 Lithium rechargeable and a fake AA battery (just a wire in an AA-sized plastic shell). Drill a hole in the battery-cover of the device where the 14500's USB port is and now your device is plug-in rechargeable, assuming it can handle 3.7V instead of the normal ~3.1V that comes from a pair o…

Follow up on this: from conversation elsewhere, another important safety tip is to get the 14500s with fancy electronics incl a USB port, because without that the battery will be a fire-hazard in this kind use.

Re: What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

#304

Post by yencabulator »

nomel wrote: post #52
yegle wrote: post #21

FWIW this has caused a big storm in China. The root of the issue is known to be caused by the battery cell vendor Amprius changing the battery design w/o notifying the power bank manufacturers. AFAIKT Amprius lost the 3C certification (a certification in China) because of this incident. This is one of the Chinese reports on the issue: https://m.thepaper.cn/newsDetail_forward_31048287 Excerpt from the report above (tr…

I work in manufacturing in the US. Incoming quality control, for Chinese vendors, is necessarily set up with zero-trust. This isn't a "trust but verify" sort of thing, it's strictly "do not trust". Assume that, at every step of the chain, there will be a lie: change of process, material change, collected data, and that the product being given to you is even yours (delivering a knockoff at the final step, and resellin…

You probably also do not pay those Chinese vendors for that service. Cheap is cheap.

The old argument for why IBM PCs (pre-Lenovo) cost more than a competitor was that they guaranteed the supply chain to exist when a repair was needed across your whole fleet of deployed machines.

Similarly, Winnebago RVs have a specific quirky reputation that the manufacturer holds on to molds of all previous products essentially forever, so they can re-manufacture parts to things that haven't been in stock for years.

Re: What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

#305

Post by Zak »

Pxtl wrote: post #302
Zak wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It actually gives you 2.1V per slot because a fully charged standard Li-ion cell is 4.2V. This is also sketchy because it will likely over-discharge the cell below 2.5V if not monitored carefully. Over-discharge makes it dangerous to charge the cell again. Actual protected 14500s will be too long in most devices meant for AA, but it's possible to find protected 14430 cells marked as "14500" from some flashlight brand…

Ah, thanks! Good to know I dodged that bullet by blind luck. I had picked up a couple of USB-port charged version of one of those old chubby non-rechargeable lithium batteries that were used in early LED flashlights (CR2 I think) to resurrect some old steel LED flashlights I found in a drawer, and got funny fantasies about doing other devices this way. I saw some articles and ads for doing it using 3.1V LiFePO4 batte…

It seems like you might be looking for "1.5V Li-ion AA", which is a 14430 with a buck converter stuck on the end.

I have pretty much the opposite preference regarding charging: I'd much rather swap in a charged spare and stick the drained battery in a slot charger than charge batteries inside devices. There's no waiting that way.

Re: What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

#306

Post by ksec »

nomel wrote: post #52
yegle wrote: post #21

FWIW this has caused a big storm in China. The root of the issue is known to be caused by the battery cell vendor Amprius changing the battery design w/o notifying the power bank manufacturers. AFAIKT Amprius lost the 3C certification (a certification in China) because of this incident. This is one of the Chinese reports on the issue: https://m.thepaper.cn/newsDetail_forward_31048287 Excerpt from the report above (tr…

I work in manufacturing in the US. Incoming quality control, for Chinese vendors, is necessarily set up with zero-trust. This isn't a "trust but verify" sort of thing, it's strictly "do not trust". Assume that, at every step of the chain, there will be a lie: change of process, material change, collected data, and that the product being given to you is even yours (delivering a knockoff at the final step, and resellin…

>This is all common knowledge, proven by example after example that it's necessary to have zero trust.

I still remember in 2012 - 2013, when I suggested exactly that, someone on HN replied and suggested I was racist.

Re: What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

#307

Post by moring »

sitkack wrote: post #248
moring wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But it’s hard to deny scale: the US is a populous country. But there are more than ONE BILLION more people in China. This is true for the US alone, but US+Canada+EU is on the same order of magnitude, all of which prefer a more-than-zero-trust situation.

If you look at historic locations of hyperinnovation there are bunch of different things. One of which is density of the activity and the supply chain. Imagine needing a new gearset for a robot, you roll down to Gear Set Alley looking for a used unit, you hit 4 different robot wrecking yards, explaining to 5 people along the way. They eventually point you over to machine shop that has modified an existing part into e…

A bit late, but I'll try...

This assumes that Gear Set Alley is near you. At >3km you'd go by car and the "meet people on the way" breaks down. At >100km you'd rather call them and miss the wrecking yards and other factories nearby.

In China, Gear Set Alley may easily be 1000km from you. Or it may be <3km from you, if you're lucky. The point is that China, taken as a whole, has no advantage over EU or US in geographical proximity. Certain regions may have that advantage, but that is totally possible in every country on earth (beyond a certain, very tiny minimum size).

Re: What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

#308

Post by nomel »

m-s-y wrote: post #224
theLegionWithin wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese manufacturing 10+ years ago is completely different to Chinese manufacturing in 2025. the other comment about "zero trust" is significantly more apt

It’s always different 10 years ago, though, isn’t? Everything is. Rose colored glasses and all. I remember these exact same “Chinese quality” threads 10 years ago and they read pretty much the same as this one, complete with the “well 10 years ago I got great stuff” and “yeah 10 years ago was different”. Cycles, man. Cycles.

Another explanation could be that things have continued to degrade.
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