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Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

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Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#301

Post by Klonoar »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #37
paulgerhardt wrote: post #14

Missed opportunity to talk about the locals creative responses to this. One cafe in Tokyo is asking customers to leave negative reviews on Google and Trip Advisor to prevent over exposure (it mostly works but made me curious enough to visit). Another specific $10 Michelin guide ramen restaurant only lets you order from a vending machine outside using a payment method you can’t access as a foreigner (one needs a physi…

Snack bars (the seedier bars you talk about) have always had a policy of no foreigners. In fact, I think it’s just in the standard snacks bar sign template.

This is false, IME. If you spent enough time to learn how to navigate it, you could get in to most of them. I'm not even fluent and it really wasn't a big deal.

I did this living there from ~2009 - ~2016. Wasn't an issue in my visits afterwards either, at least up until the COVID years.

I will say that when I go back each year (1x/2x per) post COVID, I've seen more of them trying to be firm on it though - presumably due to the tourism influx.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#302

Post by jansan »

timr wrote: post #169
amluto wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really miss the days when it was possible to be welcomed pretty much anywhere as a foreigner and have almost universal expectations of high quality, scam-free experiences How long ago was that? It was certainly true in fairly large portions of the world, but there are plenty of places where, for as long as I can remember, you could pretty much expect to be scammed regularly. In many cases those scams would be for…

> How long ago was that? It was certainly true in fairly large portions of the world, but there are plenty of places where, for as long as I can remember, you could pretty much expect to be scammed regularly. To be clear: "scamming" is still thankfully uncommon in Japan. Getting ripped off in the tourist-trap way is the new development. I don't know when it started exactly, but I lived there around a decade ago and i…

There were catch bars in the 90s, and Roppongi has been full of assholes as long as I can remember (anyone remember Tokyo Gas Panic?). I have not been to Japan for more than ten years so I do not know how bad it is, but my point is that even in the good old days you could get ripped off as a gullible foreigner (usually by other foreigners).

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#303

Post by lofaszvanitt »

gruez wrote: post #179
lofaszvanitt wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to protect your culture. USA has a 250 year history while Japan has 10x of that.

>USA has a 250 year history while Japan has 10x of that. Is that supposed to imply that Japan has more culture, or that it needs more protection because it's 10x longer? Even if Japanese culture is 10x longer than American culture, it doesn't necessarily follow that there's less of it. Pop music and hollywood music might not be considered "culture" by snobs, but they're still culture, and arguably more plentiful and…

If you are an outsider, you should adhere to that country's rules. Why are you going to a foreign country? Are you an invasive species or an inquisitive bumblebee?

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#304

Post by Klonoar »

peab wrote: post #173
cedws wrote: post #116

I live in Tokyo at the moment. I get the overtourism thing, because after you've been here even just a little while (months) you start to have a disdain for tourists that do tourist things. Like breaking the rules, being a nuisance, swarming parts of the city. I don't know what can be done about it though. Japan's economy is in trouble, and the tourist money helps and hurts at the same time. It creates tax revenue, y…

I get it too. I visited japan recently and in the main touristy spots (tokyo and kyoto), it felt like there were more westerners then japanese. I felt bad.

If you experience this in Tokyo, you're dealing with the fact that it's a truly global city and you're not venturing off the tourist path enough. It's definitely still a thing in some parts of Tokyo to have few-to-no westerners.

Kyoto was never going to be able to deal with the level of tourism that it's currently struggling with, though. My friends and I refuse to even stop there now - and I tried to get some friends who visited recently to avoid it in favor of some other culturally significant spots, but the TikTok trend seems to be incredibly powerful. I don't know if I have the words to express how that interaction made me feel, but it's definitely weird.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#305

Post by Klonoar »

lbreakjai wrote: post #68

These sorts of critics always struck me as elitist and pretentious. If reminds me of those kids gatekeeping music genres and claiming you couldn't call yourself a fan unless you listened to the most obscure album of the most obscure band. Just a fashionable way to say you've been there and done that, and that you're above the hoi polloi. Popular cities, and popular attractions within, are popular for a reason.

Craig's been more or less an indirect cultural ambassador/link for Japan in the tech scene for something like the past 15-20 years. I very much doubt he's gatekeeping.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#306

Post by Klonoar »

jerryliu12 wrote: post #39

Have to say that I'm shocked that the local government hasn't cracked down on the Mario Kart stuff.

It's happened on and off over the years, and at one point Nintendo took legal action against the business itself. It's just an annoyingly persistent tourist trap.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#307

Post by Rebelgecko »

returningfory2 wrote: post #277
gtowey wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's worse than that. I'm starting to think that there may not really be an ethical way to be a tourist in a foreign country. Especially coming from a high cost of living area to a lower one. Just being there puts you in economic competition with the locals. You can spend more on everything than everyone else and that raises their costs too. Especially housing and food. Those fancy resorts take all the prime…

I think there’s a zero sum fallacy in play here. For example you say “Those fancy resorts take all the prime real estate” but many resort towns in Mexico like Cancun were literally invented out of thin air for international tourism. The alternative reality is not “Cancun for the locals”; the alternative reality is no Cancun. In general we have the ability to expand the amount of available housing/hotels/etc. to meet…

Even sticking with Japan, Kyoto was basically saved by international tourism. An American tourist ended up ended up intervening 20 years after his visit when he saw Kyoto at the top of America's list of cities to use nuclear weapons on.

Although I don't think the commonly repeated story that Stinson visited on his honeymoon is true, he had gotten married in the previous century

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#308

Post by bitwize »

I loved going to Japan in 2011, when it was still mainly just weebs doing tourism and they were relatively very few and quite harmless. I would not go today, because I neither want to see nor contribute to this problem.

I'll come back when the idiots settle down. Meanwhile, my wife wants to see France and Scotland.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#309

Post by raffael_de »

paulgerhardt wrote: post #14

Missed opportunity to talk about the locals creative responses to this. One cafe in Tokyo is asking customers to leave negative reviews on Google and Trip Advisor to prevent over exposure (it mostly works but made me curious enough to visit). Another specific $10 Michelin guide ramen restaurant only lets you order from a vending machine outside using a payment method you can’t access as a foreigner (one needs a physi…

> “no foreigners” sign out front

It's funny how everybody seems totally cool with this in Japan (or other Asian countries) but all hell breaks lose if somebody pulls that off in Europe. Actually this is just the news currently as a public swimming facility in Switzerland recently banned foreigners due to problems with visitors from France. The guests now seem super happy but it has been in he news already for a few days. In Germany you can even sue in such a case as we have anti-discrimination laws.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#310

Post by golemiprague »

anon-3988 wrote: post #168
cedws wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My home country, the UK, has already been through this cultural erosion which is why I respect Japan's right to defend its own. London in particular has become a place for everybody and at the same time for nobody. It's a city of people of different values and wavelengths with very little shared strata compared with Tokyo.

I am from a country in South East Asia, and its sad here as well. We have absolutely 0 connection to our ancestors from just 100 years ago. We (and me) have truly forgotten and don't have any identity beyond the surface level. We suffered from Arabification of every part of our culture. I honestly think the original culture is pretty much extinct. Very, very few of the incoming generation even desire to uphold and re…

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