Live data from Hacker News

Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

proton.me

301–310 of 665 posts

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#301
post #242

Can we have links to the actual class action? Case number?

It is linked at the bottom of the article. https://res.cloudinary.com/dbulfrlrz/images/v1751299117/wp-p...

Oh thank you, I totally missed it. Hyperlinking sentences or the nouns or phrases themselves seems to have mostly gone out of style in these sorts of posts these days.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

30% is a pretty big chunk of a market. There is no reason we have to wait until a company has 99% of the market to address anticompetitive behavior.

Samsung is sitting at 28% of the Western European market share with their Android phones. Should we be worried about anti competitive behavior there as well ?

Of course

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#303
post #250
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I routinely buy printer toner and ink from companies that are not my printer's manufacturer. Where did you get the idea that it isn't possible to do so?

> Where did you get the idea that it isn't possible to do so? Not op, but the various "must use our genuine brand printer cartridges!" schemes that printer manufacturers have used over the past, oh, 2 decades might have something to do with it? edit to clarify: I mean the cartridges with their own chips that HP et al. tried to make happen a while back

Don't forget about the refrigerators with chips in the water filter cartridges. And the barcoded coffee pods. And ...

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's specifically anticompetitive for Apple to force app developers to go through Apple Payments (with a 30% fee to Apple) for all purchases, otherwise their app is disallowed from being sold on the App store. There's no technological reason for app developers to be restricted from using other payment processors - it's purely a strategy for increased revenue for Apple. In antitrust terms, it is a form of Vend…

> There's no technological reason for app developers to be restricted from using other payment processors But there is a customer experience reason. As an iOS user, I very much appreciate that I can ask Apple to cancel some bullshit subscription that used to otherwise try to lock me in behind a labyrinth of added friction and timewasting. Not every problem is technological.

It should be possible to open up the “Cancel Subscription” feature/button to apps using other payment providers. Maybe even keep that in as a requirement for all payment providers?

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#306

I'm not an Apple enthusiast—my rarely used iPad mini is my only Apple device—but let me play devil’s advocate. If a company invests billions in R&D to create hardware and its integrated software, shouldn’t it have the right to control who or what interacts with it? Why should I be forced to open up the carefully designed ecosystem I’ve built? If my pitch is premium, high-speed hardware and intuitive software so user-…

> Why should I be forced to open up the carefully designed ecosystem I’ve built?

Because not doing so harms the market and society (the article details how). Governments do not exist solely to enforce contracts and property rights. Ideals (e.g. "a man is entitled to the sweat of his brow") are valuable guides, and worth bearing even significant costs to keep, but they are not to be followed blindly, at any cost.

> There are other options out there.

Law and politics (should) step in when "voting with your feet/wallet" fails. You also ignore Apple's middle-man role - consumers can choose (among the very few) different options, but companies serving Apple's captured market cannot.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#307
post #42
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the core of my contention is that: if you make the platform that others run on and which creates entirely new economies and allows businesses to thrive, don’t you get to define the constraints that you want since it’s _your_ platform? What’s effectively happening here is that companies are using the courts to force the design of OSes in a certain way: That only open OSes can ever be made, not closed ones. Huh,…

The user can hack the product, install a different OS, Strike it with a hammer, or throw it away. Apple hasn't violated their rights in any way. Sure hacking it or installing a different OS are hard but rights are not meant to guarantee something is easy. I never bought the argument that user rights should dictate how a product hardware or software should be manufactured.

> I never bought the argument that user rights should dictate how a product hardware or software should be manufactured.

How do you feel about user rights (of wheelchair users) dictating how a product hardware (such as public property and public and private spaces and structures open to the general public) should be manufactured (to include wheelchair ramps and and other amenities such as elevators and accessible restrooms)?

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

google with their android anti-fragmentation-agreement is pretty predatory. basically release any/all android devices with google services and pay us cut or release none and use pure aosp. it is some next level shit.

huh. Isnt that what business deals are supposed to be? Two businesses entering into a business relationship, where both parties get something. OEMs get Google services & operating system, or OEMs are free to use open source project. Are you saying Google should freely give away their products?

> Isnt that what business deals are supposed to be?

To clarify what exactly that agreement does: it prohibits companies from developing competitors. It is nakedly anti-competitive, and no, business deals are not supposed to be that - there's a large body of law, sadly rarely enforced, saying so. Not every business practice is legal just because the directly involved parties agreed.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#309
post #69

I don't think any big tech company has ever done anything as evil and predatory as Apple walling off iMessage, giving the impression that Apple phones were high technology, and interacting with peasant androids is what made group chats fragment and pictures and videos look like trash. Few things are more enraging than people being left out of chats with friends and family because they didn't bend over for Apple. Even…

This is hopelessly exaggerated and bad-faith. First of all, when Apple created iMessage, there was no possible way for them to predict that friend groups would use it as a reason to treat members of their groups poorly due to using Android phones. Second of all, Apple did not deliberately make interacting with non-iMessage users in group chats "look like trash" in order to exclude them. Apple went out of its way to m…

Apple was perfectly right when they did this way back as they were not a dominant platform. Different legal rules applied.

However making an argument that some key aspects of the iPhome were not designed for viral growth is disrespectful to Steve Jobs who, like many of that time, was very familiar with engineering platform growth - probably more and better than most.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome is the new IE6 if anything. Tons of websites fail to work on safari.

IE6 was stagnant and not standards compliant. Safari at least complies with standards. Chrome is the polar opposite of IE6. Turns out it doesn't really matter what you do, if one party controls too much of any market it's bad news for end users one way or another.

That’s not exactly accurate as standards for new web technologies didn’t exist back when IE6 was dominant. The WHATWG had to be founded and the standards made post facto before IE6 was non-compliant.
Post reply on HN