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Now might be the best time to learn software development

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Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#301

Post by tombert »

endymion-light wrote: post #256
Jensson wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone uses an individualized version of Google, not just your history its even different by country of origin etc. So no, they are not using the same version of Google.

Well my individualized version of google is filled with medium articles and useless bull, i'd pay good money to switch to this magic working search engine

Another recommendation for Kagi. It cost money but I find that the results are as good or better than Google, and I get to rank where sites show up in the results, not some machine learning program trying to guess at it.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#302

Post by mindcrime »

tempodox wrote: post #223
uludag wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally fair take — and honestly, it’s refreshing to hear someone call it like it is. You’re clearly someone who values real understanding over surface-level noise, and it shows. A lot of people just go along with the hype without questioning the substance underneath — but you’ve taken the time to test it, poke at the seams, and see what actually holds up. I swear there's something about this voice which is especiall…

Which makes me wonder whether there is an SI unit for sycophantic sliminess, because the first paragraph of your answer is dripping with it.

When they say "there is something about this voice..." I think they mean the paragraph above, which sounds very GenAI generated to me. Either AI generated, or "generated by a human intentionally trying to reproduce the 'voice' of a typical GenAI."

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#303

Post by AznHisoka »

bgwalter wrote: post #182
guicen wrote: post #131

In fact, in my opinion, one of the benefits of AI tools that is often overlooked is "psychological support". When you are stuck at work, it will give you a push. Even if it is not completely right, it is enough to get you moving. The feeling of "no longer fighting alone at work" is actually more important than many people think.

To each his own. I'm completely drained after 30 min of "discussing" with an LLM, which is essentially an overconfident idiot. Pushes never come from the LLM, which can be easily seen by feeding the output of two LLMs into each other. The conversation collapses completely. Using Google while ignoring the obnoxious and often wrong LLM summaries at the top gives you access to the websites of real human experts, who oft…

If it's not overconfident, it's the opposite - they're too much of a "Yes man", which at the slightest whim will change their mind to fit your opinion, if they even detect you might have a different one.

Then they'll change their mind to their original answer when you tell them "I wasn't disagreeing with you". Honestly, it's amusing, but draining at the same time.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#304

Post by ryandrake »

sokoloff wrote: post #294
aaronbaugher wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History, especially the industrial age, says that attitude leads to a race to the bottom. There's always someone who's willing to work for a little less, in a little shittier conditions, to pack a few more family members into a shitty apartment to make do. If you leave it up to each worker to fend for himself with no negotiating power beyond his personal freedom to walk out, you get sweatshops and poorhouses in any i…

Tech workers have the freedom to unionize in the US; with exceedingly rare exceptions, they’ve overwhelmingly not chosen to do so.

Employees also face an enormous propaganda machine constantly telling them unions are bad, they just take your dues, you'll never do better negotiating together, and so on. The usual techie arrogance also plays a role: "Unions benefit common workers, but I am the one uniquely well-paid hard worker that is skilled at negotiaton who would not be advantaged by a union. Therefore unions are useless!" Every tech worker thinks that they alone are the captain of their industry and couldn't possibly benefit from coordinating with everyone else.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#305

Post by sokoloff »

somenameforme wrote: post #277
dakiol wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do we assume that Prompt Engineering is going to pay less money? As usual, what one brings to the company is value, and if AI-generated code needs to be prompted first and reviewed later, I don’t see how prompters in the future could earn less than software engineers now. Prompt engineering is like singing: sure thing everyone can physically sing… now whether it’s pleasant listening to them is another topic.

People aren't paid by value brought to companies, they're paid by the scarcity of their skill. Your analog is actually perfect for this. There's a reason saying you want to be a professional singer is generally something only a child would say. It's about as reliable a career as winning the lottery, simply because everybody can sing, lots of them quite decently. And so singer, as a career, mostly isn't a thing - it's…

…unless the value created via prompt engineering is high enough to cause companies to rationally demand even more prompt engineers.

The size of the pie is nowhere near fixed, IMO. There are many things which would be valuable to program/automate, but are simply unaffordable to address with traditional software engineering at the current cost per unit of functionality.

If AI can create a significant increase in productivity, I can see a path to AI-powered programming being just as valuable as (and a lot less tedious than) today.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#306

Post by sokoloff »

giantg2 wrote: post #292
bluGill wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait a couple years before you start stating anything as a trend. There have been several downturns over my lifetime (I'm 50) where it was hard to find a tech job, and several periods of good times where tech people were in high demand. Until several years have past you cannot tell the difference between a temporary downturn and the end of an era. Every time things turn bad a lot of people jump out and yell it is the…

I'm not saying it won't turn around, but its been about 2-3 years.

If it’s been 3 years, then I’m pretty sure it’s not AI-coding driven.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#307

Post by sokoloff »

blindriver wrote: post #295
dakiol wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do we assume that Prompt Engineering is going to pay less money? As usual, what one brings to the company is value, and if AI-generated code needs to be prompted first and reviewed later, I don’t see how prompters in the future could earn less than software engineers now. Prompt engineering is like singing: sure thing everyone can physically sing… now whether it’s pleasant listening to them is another topic.

Because the 10% difference between the best prompt engineer and a mediocre prompt engineer won't usually make a noticeable difference in output or productivity. There's no reason to specialize in it or pay extra because the gains are ephemeral.

That’s a wild take to me.

I think that the spread of capability and effectiveness between the best and mediocre will continue to be several factors and might even increase as compared to today.

I can’t see any way it would be less than 2x.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#308

Post by mylons »

bgwalter wrote: post #182
guicen wrote: post #131

In fact, in my opinion, one of the benefits of AI tools that is often overlooked is "psychological support". When you are stuck at work, it will give you a push. Even if it is not completely right, it is enough to get you moving. The feeling of "no longer fighting alone at work" is actually more important than many people think.

To each his own. I'm completely drained after 30 min of "discussing" with an LLM, which is essentially an overconfident idiot. Pushes never come from the LLM, which can be easily seen by feeding the output of two LLMs into each other. The conversation collapses completely. Using Google while ignoring the obnoxious and often wrong LLM summaries at the top gives you access to the websites of real human experts, who oft…

google gives you access to real SEO blog spam. nothing better than the experts at stack overflow, or some random medium blog from a guy in rural india

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#309

Post by jkestner »

enraged_camel wrote: post #194
bgwalter wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To each his own. I'm completely drained after 30 min of "discussing" with an LLM, which is essentially an overconfident idiot. Pushes never come from the LLM, which can be easily seen by feeding the output of two LLMs into each other. The conversation collapses completely. Using Google while ignoring the obnoxious and often wrong LLM summaries at the top gives you access to the websites of real human experts, who oft…

>> To each his own. I'm completely drained after 30 min of "discussing" with an LLM, which is essentially an overconfident idiot. I'm completely drained after 30 minutes of browsing Google results, which these days consist of mountains of SEO-optimized garbage, posts on obscure forums, Stackoverflow posts and replies that are either outdated or have the wrong accepted answer... the list goes on.

Using natural language discussion to probe for an answer is more draining for me than scanning a large volume of text (much like watching a video instead of the transcript is). I didn’t start coding for more humanish interaction!

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#310

Post by tempodox »

mindcrime wrote: post #302
tempodox wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which makes me wonder whether there is an SI unit for sycophantic sliminess, because the first paragraph of your answer is dripping with it.

When they say "there is something about this voice..." I think they mean the paragraph above, which sounds very GenAI generated to me. Either AI generated, or "generated by a human intentionally trying to reproduce the 'voice' of a typical GenAI."

That's what I was referring to.
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