Liquid Glass – WWDC25 [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Liquid Glass – WWDC25 [video]

#301

Post by hermitcrab » Mon, Jun 16, 2025, 10:10 AM UTC

grishka wrote: post #300

hermitcrab wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC Qt does it's own render on Windows and Mac, but uses the Mac rendering for Mac. Generally i think the Qt controls look fine on Mac. But it never quite seems to get the spacing and layout correct.

No, in my own experience, Qt apps have a very distinct "something is off" feeling to them. Because they implement everything from scratch, some of the subtle behaviors from AppKit-provided controls are just not there, despite Qt trying hard to skin them to mimic the real thing. Qt also implements some controls that just can't exist in an AppKit app, like tabs with icons, or those Windows-like toolbars. Popup menus cl…

I work mainly on Windows and am probably a lot less sensitive to these differences that you are. Cross-platform apps are always a compromise.

Re: Liquid Glass – WWDC25 [video]

#302

Post by nomel » Mon, Jun 16, 2025, 7:23 PM UTC

adastra22 wrote: post #35

nomel wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not "it". A square cover would not be feasible, without a tether system to fish them out of the literal shit, after they fall in from a few inch misalignment.

Why would you put a square cover on a round hole? The hole came first. They dig a hole, then they have a need to put a cover on it. Making a circular cover to fit over a circular hole is if anything cheaper and easier than making a square cover over an inscribed circular hole, at least when working with metal. The hole drove the design of the cover, not the other way around.

You wouldn't for multiple reasons. The fact that the tube you're covering is round is one of those reasons, and the primary one, but not all of the reasons. A round cover would still be used if the tubes were square.

A manhole cover has two purposes: people to traverse, but much more importantly, vehicles to traverse.

Re: Liquid Glass – WWDC25 [video]

#303

Post by nomel » Mon, Jun 16, 2025, 7:54 PM UTC

seydor wrote: post #40

nomel wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this wrong? Our visual system is optimized, rather extremely, for understanding 3d scenes under the simple perspective model that our eyes are based on: x' = (x * f) / z Outside of that 99.999% experience norm, that are brains are so used to, is disconnect and discomfort. If you've ever put on a new pair of glasses, with a different prescription, you'll understand exactly what he's talking about: depth offset…

the fact that it's surprising does not make it a visual cue. A cue to what? I am not aware of any psychophysics study that says we have perception of droplets or lens transformations (in contrast to shadows , gradients etc that are well studied). There also doesn't seem to be an evolutionary reason for it because the natural world does not have lenses and glass. And UIs are usually based on intuitive features.

I assume he's saying the "disconnect" is easy to see.

Re: Liquid Glass – WWDC25 [video]

#304

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jun 17, 2025, 1:00 AM UTC

derefr wrote: post #14

dylan604 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that the real reason? I had always heard that a round hole prevents the cover from being able to fall back in the hole

From the perspective of "design the manhole cover first", the reason is that manhole covers aren't just round — they're (very subtle) domes. A dome is: 1. the best shape for taking stress from very heavy trucks putting all their weight on them without the manhole itself gradually bowing, and 2. is best at transferring that stress equally into the manhole wall (cast concrete cylinder) itself. (A square manhole + manho…

[deleted]

Re: Liquid Glass – WWDC25 [video]

#305

Post by Groxx » Tue, Jun 17, 2025, 1:04 AM UTC

rozab wrote: post #145

derefr wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the perspective of "design the manhole cover first", the reason is that manhole covers aren't just round — they're (very subtle) domes. A dome is: 1. the best shape for taking stress from very heavy trucks putting all their weight on them without the manhole itself gradually bowing, and 2. is best at transferring that stress equally into the manhole wall (cast concrete cylinder) itself. (A square manhole + manho…

You seem very confident about all this. In the UK manhole covers are generally square.

Yep.

You'll find square hole covers all over, they're not rare at all. The strength of the lid and its ability to be supported is not at all an issue on a single human sized hole - it's a thick, relatively cheap slab of metal over a small opening. They're the strongest surface of most roads, by a HUGE margin.

Re: Liquid Glass – WWDC25 [video]

#306

Post by nomel » Tue, Jun 17, 2025, 6:02 PM UTC

brookst wrote: post #217

seydor wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking advantage of innate perceptual cues is smart and our interfaces have always taken advantages of them https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_perception we shouldn't need a manual to interpret a UI

I don’t entirely disagree, but that is still an intuition, not a proof that our interfaces should always work that way. We used to ride animals with legs, which worked a lot like our legs do. Does that mean the wheel is wrong? We don’t have wheels, and they don’t occur in nature. I don’t think Apple has invented the wheel, and I’m inclined to agree that leveraging our hardware acceleration makes sense. But I haven’t…

I think things are more "differential" than that. Since many of us look at these interfaces more than any other visual stimulus, our perception will be optimized around them. The ideal system, in the short term, will involve familiarity more than anything.