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ALICE detects the conversion of lead into gold at the LHC

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Re: ALICE detects the conversion of lead into gold at the LHC

#301

Post by HenryBemis »

bruce511 wrote: post #279
HenryBemis wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely will mis-speak/mis-write, but my mathematic (also flawed) tells me that if Gold + 1 = Mercury, then Something + 1 = Gold, so we can find that "something" add 1 of the thingie, and booya!! gold!! (right?) (please read the above with silly humor) In a slightly more serious note, I remember listening to Elon in some podcast 1-2 years ago saying how they create new metals/alloys that nobody had created previ…

The whole concept of "turning lead into gold" is somewhat self defeating. Because turning lead into gold doesn't make lead as valuable as gold, it makes gold as valuable as lead. This has happened before. Aliminium used to be very scarce, and hence expensive. More expensive than silver. The top of the Washington monument is capped with aluminum. A new process was invented to extract aluminum. So scarcity disappeared…

In a way yes, but(!!) if I know the way and I turn 50gr of lead to gold per month, and I slowly do this (not convert 200 tons of lead into gold and flood the market) then I can have a rich and easy life without destabilising the price of gold. But that's just me.. Someone else may play this differently.

Re: ALICE detects the conversion of lead into gold at the LHC

#302

Post by int_19h »

andrewflnr wrote: post #297
int_19h wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does not become part of the singularity once it crosses the event horizon. The event horizon is actually rather uneventful as far as any particular piece of matter crossing it goes - it only means that this matter can never leave the boundary defined by the horizon, but it doesn't change it otherwise. The singularity (if it even exists) is the thing at the center of the black hole, far below its event horizon.

Technically yes. But also, things that enter the event horizon are compelled to hit the singularity on a very tight timescale. I forget the exact fraction of a second, but even for a supermassive hole it's very small. So it's not crazy to think of stuff entering the event horizon as immediately becoming part of the singularity (if it exists, as you mentioned. My bet is that it doesn't, but as far as our current under…

The precise formula, assuming that object was at rest at the event horizon, is:

τ = (2√2)·R/3c

So "fraction of a second" is only true if you're talking about relatively small black holes. For a supermassive one, it can take hours or even days for the largest ones.

But note again that this assumes no orbit, just falling straight towards it from rest. For orbiting objects it could take much longer depending on their velocity.

Also, this all is from the perspective of the observer who is undergoing the fall. From the outside, time dilation means that objects never actually cross the event horizon at all - no matter how long you wait, you'll see them as they were getting closer and closer to it, but never the actual crossing.

Re: ALICE detects the conversion of lead into gold at the LHC

#303

Post by EricLeer »

eternauta3k wrote: post #289
levocardia wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at a lab for a while that had a atomic layer deposition setup for gold. I believe they charged a modest amount (a few cents? a few dollars?) per single-atom layer of gold. The device had a bell-shaped chamber that you would place your wafer into, but of course no matter how big or small the wafer was, the entire interior of the chamber got an even coating of gold. The technician who operated it had a ring he…

Does the gold ever get recovered from the chamber wall?

Jeah, the lab where I worked cleaned the machine on a 1-2 month basis. All the cleaned out metals where then sold to a recycler.

Re: ALICE detects the conversion of lead into gold at the LHC

#304

Post by chipsrafferty »

bruce511 wrote: post #279
HenryBemis wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely will mis-speak/mis-write, but my mathematic (also flawed) tells me that if Gold + 1 = Mercury, then Something + 1 = Gold, so we can find that "something" add 1 of the thingie, and booya!! gold!! (right?) (please read the above with silly humor) In a slightly more serious note, I remember listening to Elon in some podcast 1-2 years ago saying how they create new metals/alloys that nobody had created previ…

The whole concept of "turning lead into gold" is somewhat self defeating. Because turning lead into gold doesn't make lead as valuable as gold, it makes gold as valuable as lead. This has happened before. Aliminium used to be very scarce, and hence expensive. More expensive than silver. The top of the Washington monument is capped with aluminum. A new process was invented to extract aluminum. So scarcity disappeared…

Not if you're the only one with the knowledge or means to do it.

Re: ALICE detects the conversion of lead into gold at the LHC

#305

Post by sebastiennight »

kbelder wrote: post #251
colechristensen wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes a bit to accept your (10^0 m) place in the universe on the length scale between the Planck length (10^-35 m), the width of a proton (10^-15 m) and the diameter of the observable universe (10^27 m).

I wonder if there's any reason we're roughly in the middle.

"Roughly" still being off by a factor of 10^5 means an amoeba, or bacteria in general, would be acing the "middle" better than us though.

Re: ALICE detects the conversion of lead into gold at the LHC

#306

Post by sebastiennight »

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #200
omnee wrote: post #42

The relevant part: "The ALICE analysis shows that, during Run 2 of the LHC (2015–2018), about 86 billion gold nuclei were created at the four major experiments. In terms of mass, this corresponds to just 29 picograms (2.9 ×10-11 g)." Just need to scale it by trillions to make 1 ounce, but transmutation of lead to gold - the dream of many alchemists - is now just a by product of particle accelerators.

I thought bonbardment like that led to made radioactive gold

Given the half-life of Gold-198 is 2.7 days, you've got an arbitrage opportunity during which running it to the closest pawn shop might be viable without losing too much of your hair.

Re: ALICE detects the conversion of lead into gold at the LHC

#307

Post by colechristensen »

kbelder wrote: post #251
colechristensen wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes a bit to accept your (10^0 m) place in the universe on the length scale between the Planck length (10^-35 m), the width of a proton (10^-15 m) and the diameter of the observable universe (10^27 m).

I wonder if there's any reason we're roughly in the middle.

Well the ratio of the strong force, vs electromagnetism and the speed of light define the size of the atom. Life requires machinery to self replicate and the distance between a DNA base pair is a sugar molecule attached in a chain so that's about as small as possible. Intelligence requires a certain amount of complexity of something like a brain, and it has to be made of cells and doubtful it could be made more than an order of magnitude smaller.

Could intelligent life exist based on some other physical phenomena than a self-replicating string of atoms? Maybe some unknown quantum phenomena inside neutron stars or something big and slow on galactic scales or something new which fills the dark matter gap...

But otherwise it's physics driving where units of "stuff" can exist, and the correct scales for long term complexity/turbulence can happen, like the thin film of goo on the outside of the frozen crust of a molten rock we are.

Re: ALICE detects the conversion of lead into gold at the LHC

#309

Post by LtdJorge »

bruce511 wrote: post #279
HenryBemis wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely will mis-speak/mis-write, but my mathematic (also flawed) tells me that if Gold + 1 = Mercury, then Something + 1 = Gold, so we can find that "something" add 1 of the thingie, and booya!! gold!! (right?) (please read the above with silly humor) In a slightly more serious note, I remember listening to Elon in some podcast 1-2 years ago saying how they create new metals/alloys that nobody had created previ…

The whole concept of "turning lead into gold" is somewhat self defeating. Because turning lead into gold doesn't make lead as valuable as gold, it makes gold as valuable as lead. This has happened before. Aliminium used to be very scarce, and hence expensive. More expensive than silver. The top of the Washington monument is capped with aluminum. A new process was invented to extract aluminum. So scarcity disappeared…

Tbh, it if couldn’t be recycled, it wouldn’t be used for soda. I’ve heard that 70% of aluminium in use today id recycled.

Re: ALICE detects the conversion of lead into gold at the LHC

#310

Post by throwaway2202 »

bruce511 wrote: post #282
throwaway2202 wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a point in history when science was not public. Even after it became public, moat was still a thing.

I presume you're referring to the concept of alchemy in the middle ages? The problem in that context is test it would have been impossible to keep the process a secret. To be useful (to say the king) it would have to be more than one guy in a castle. And between spies, and traitors who could be materially incentivised), and outright kidnapping and torture, well, I just don't see it staying hidden. And its not like a…

Fair point.
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