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You wouldn't steal a font

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Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#301

Post by immibis »

gkoberger wrote: post #109
tptacek wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is maybe nothing in the entire world that I am less sympathetic towards than the cause of font piracy / font liberation. You have perfectly good --- in fact, historically excellent --- fonts loaded by default for free on any computer you buy today. Arguing for the oppression of font licenses is, to me, like arguing about how much it costs to buy something at Hermès. Just don't shop at Hermès.

I agree the average person is likely fine with the fonts on their computer, but this is profoundly misunderstanding the importance of design. Typefaces are incredibly important, and have been for centuries. I'd argue that complaining about font prices is less like a Hermes bag, and more like complaining about high-end ingredients when a supermarket has cheap stuff. Yes, you can get away with cheaper materials when co…

If they're profoundly important for the design of your money-making app, the principle of "fuck you, pay me" applies. If you're making $50,000 every year and you couldn't do that without the design and you couldn't do the design without the font, pay up.

If they're profoundly important for the design of your free software app... we all know how likely it is for a free software app to have good design. You'd be the first.

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#302

Post by immibis »

behringer wrote: post #274
dcow wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typography is important. So important that we have really good looking fonts available for free. And a custom font isn’t going to be the deciding factor in whether your next AI powered social graph app sinks or floats. Guaranteed.

Then why are the fonts so expensive?

Market segmentation

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#304

Post by badmintonbaseba »

kevingadd wrote: post #174
tptacek wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is maybe nothing in the entire world that I am less sympathetic towards than the cause of font piracy / font liberation. You have perfectly good --- in fact, historically excellent --- fonts loaded by default for free on any computer you buy today. Arguing for the oppression of font licenses is, to me, like arguing about how much it costs to buy something at Hermès. Just don't shop at Hermès.

The fonts loaded on one machine are typically not loaded reliably on all machines, so you need to distribute fonts with your application. Doing this is probably a violation of the license that all those "free fonts" were distributed under, so your only options are: 1. Public Domain Fonts 2. Fonts that cost money The set of public domain fonts is pretty small and most of them are low quality - not all, thankfully - an…

There is a large range of permissive licensing between public domain and "fonts that cost money". Free as in freedom Linux distros ship a sizable set of fonts, and I'm sure most of them are licensed permissively.

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#305

Post by akho »

wildzzz wrote: post #18
pelagic_sky wrote: post #14

Very early in my design education (late 90's) I was taught that fonts are fonts and the more you have, the better you tool set would be. As a graphic designer I definitely made things with fonts I had downloaded. It wasn't till I got my first serious design job at an agency where I quickly learned about purchasing and licensing fonts. Even if I could "find" a missing font, I wasn't allowed to use it. We needed to get…

It's even harder to get away with pirating fonts now with web fonts. Either the service can detect you pulling a font for a domain that isn't paying for it or webcrawlers will find unpaid fonts.

A downloadable file can be hosted elsewhere.

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#306

Post by robertlagrant »

behringer wrote: post #274
dcow wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typography is important. So important that we have really good looking fonts available for free. And a custom font isn’t going to be the deciding factor in whether your next AI powered social graph app sinks or floats. Guaranteed.

Then why are the fonts so expensive?

> Then why are the fonts so expensive?

Because they're considered important, and definitely take a long time to make. Try making one.

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#308

Post by alpaca128 »

echoangle wrote: post #295
rafram wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are computer programs. Not sure why you’d crudely insult the judge for saying that.

Are fonts really programs? Is a digital image file also a program? A font file is more like a config that’s used by your OS to render something, there’s no real interactivity in fonts (except some ligatures but those are just static tables, right?).

Fonts aren't just programs, they can contain and run an entire AI model to give you access to an LLM in any program running Harfbuzz: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40766791

I would say that counts as interactivity.

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#309

Post by readbeard »

tptacek wrote: post #92
phony-account wrote: post #24

Is this the wrong time to rant about font licensing though? I’ve always bought and paid for fonts, but as I’ve gradually transitioned to mobile app development, I one day realized that all the fonts I bought for print are now worthless to me. These crazy outdated licenses that let you print as many magazines or books you want forever, for a one-time price. But if your hobby is making apps, then suddenly the same font…

There is maybe nothing in the entire world that I am less sympathetic towards than the cause of font piracy / font liberation. You have perfectly good --- in fact, historically excellent --- fonts loaded by default for free on any computer you buy today. Arguing for the oppression of font licenses is, to me, like arguing about how much it costs to buy something at Hermès. Just don't shop at Hermès.

Part of the problem is that Monotype has a bit of a monopoly in the upper segment of the market though right? I know they're not the only players, but it feels like they've vacuumed up enough small, successful foundries that they now control enough of the market that they can get away with the kind of aggressive behavior that wouldn't be tenable in a healthier, more competitive marketplace.

From Wikipedia [0]

> Via acquisitions including Linotype GmbH, International Typeface Corporation, Bitstream, FontShop, URW, Hoefler & Co., Fontsmith, Fontworks [ja] and Colophon Foundry, the company has gained the rights to major font families including Helvetica, ITC Franklin Gothic, Optima, ITC Avant Garde, Palatino, FF DIN and Gotham. It also owns MyFonts, used by many independent font design studios.[3] The company is owned by HGGC, a private equity firm.

For those less familiar with them, those are BIG names, and the acquisition of them could perhaps aptly be compared, for instance, to Disney's acquisitions of properties like Lucasfilm and Marvel.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotype_Imaging

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#310

Post by [deleted] »

tptacek wrote: post #216
AlchemistCamp wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hermes doesn't forbid you from wearing your watch or charge 10x more for you to wear it while playing a mobile game. I think a lot of the anger is more about the complexity and price discrimination than the absolute price.

If Hermès did forbid me from carrying my (hypothetical) wallet more than 3 times a week, I simply would not buy that wallet. It would not become a moral crusade.

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