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Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

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Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#301

Post by cge »

krapp wrote: post #257
light_hue_1 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Trump won 49% of the vote in 2024, compared to Hillary's 48% in 2016. The numbers go with the story perfectly. He didn't win a majority of the popular vote, but neither did Hilary. Trump did win a bigger share than she did though.

You're confusing the popular vote with electoral votes. Hillary Clinton won the popular vote in 2016 by a margin of almost 3 million[0]. But because states vote for President in the US through the electoral college, rather than people , Trump won the election with a slight majority of electoral votes. Hillary Clinton lost not because she was unpopular (she was, even in the most conservative estimate, about as popular…

They're not confusing popular and electoral votes. Trump won a majority of electoral votes, and a plurality of the popular vote, as they claimed; that is from the official count, not preliminary counts. He did not win a majority of the popular vote, but that is also the case both for Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton (twice, though one of those was a rare three candidate race where a majority would have been unlikely).

You cannot say that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote in 2016 and say that Trump did not in 2024 unless you are disputing the official count. He had a margin of around 2.3m.

https://www.fec.gov/resources/cms-content/documents/2024pres...

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#302

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

amarcheschi wrote: post #272
dachworker wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a weird attitude among European elites where on the one hand, they point out how European countries have always been in a subservient position within the American sphere of influence, but then, instead of cheering that this era is ending, they seem to be all upset about it and want their collar to be put back on. Help me understand this. To me it seems that maybe the interests of EU elites differ from the in…

The people i know (except for the tankie ones such as my high school philosphy professor, that guy was goat) would have preferred a less abrupt usa exit and not one that potentially puts europe security at risk. I do not know enough about the elites to talk about it tho

I don't support Trump, but you really can't claim that Europe wasn't warned here. Russia first invaded Ukraine back in 2014. And here's Trump back in 2018, warning about German dependence on Russian gas, and stating that Europe needed to step up defense spending "immediately":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu57D9YcIk0

This has hardly been "abrupt". Even Obama and Bush were telling Europe to step up defense spending.

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#303

Post by halper »

ETH_start wrote: post #186
wasmitnetzen wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with the notion that the existence of a few mega-corps is a useful metric. Of course the US is the more free market, and allows those oligopolies to exist. The EU would have split up those companies years ago.

The US economy is now 50% larger than the EU's, as a result of this market freedom and enterprise growth.

That is definitely one measure, but it is also an economy where someone working at the restaurant in a hotel in Miami earns about one bottle of water per hour. If the bottled water is expensive or if the salary is low is a matter of perspective.

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#304

Post by fuzzy_biscuit »

goodcanadian wrote: post #160
flowerlad wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your boy trump did do deliver, is the US now GREAT enough for you yet? Not our boy. Trump was elected by uneducated farmers, not by HN crowd. Almost 78% of farmers endorsed his most recent presidential run. https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-farmers-voted-trump-feeling-210...

I grew up on a farm. Farmers as a class are not stupid, at least no more so than any other group of people I've dealt with. They do have different interests and priorities than city dwelling people which tend to be better represented by traditionally conservative parties, but that is not an absolute. In Canada, historically, farmers were also responsible for the social credit movement ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

I know I'm being pedantic, but the parent comment said 'uneducated', not stupid, and while it's certainly true that some use those interchangeably, I do not see them as such.

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#305

Post by flohofwoe »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #259
epolanski wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same Sarah Paine that speaks about how China lifted 1B+ people out of poverty and created tens of millions of millionaires?

Largely after abandoning damaging communist ideas and allowing private business to exist. China is no longer communist, it's this weird hybrid of capitalism with heavy government controls and heavy censorship.

> China is no longer communist, it's this weird hybrid of capitalism with heavy government controls and heavy censorship.

I think the established term is 'state capitalism'.

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#306

Post by DFHippie »

Ragnarork wrote: post #180
goodcanadian wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up on a farm. Farmers as a class are not stupid, at least no more so than any other group of people I've dealt with. They do have different interests and priorities than city dwelling people which tend to be better represented by traditionally conservative parties, but that is not an absolute. In Canada, historically, farmers were also responsible for the social credit movement ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

Thank you for saying that. I see this divide all the time, and I can't bear seeing this used time and time again to make the rural vs. the urban populations angry at each other, which in the end only detracts from trying to see how to make everything work together. I wish we'd be smarter and stopped just being condescending towards the other group. The only ones actively benefitting from this divide are not well-inte…

One elaboration on your point: the rural and urban populations aren't mirrors of each other. The urban population generally ignores the rural population. The rural population pays attention to (a select subset of) what is happening in the city.

I think this is an inevitable consequence of population size and density. People are interested in people. The people who generate new culture -- who attract the interest of other people -- thrive in the cities. They have a bigger audience and a bigger community of fellow creatives. They find more variety. They have more to work with. So in both the city and the country people pay attention to what's happening in the city and ignore what's happening in the country. More is happening in the city and it is more interesting.

This isn't everything that makes cities tend to differ in their values and politics from the country, but it's the hotbed malign demagogues exploit to empower themselves. They tell the country, "Hey, the city people don't respect you. They have contempt for your values. Their politics are the reason for your suffering. You are the real people. They are parasites. Be mad!"

The country is primed to rise up. The city isn't. So the demagogues make the country hurt the city. Then the city is mad as well, at people who have genuinely hurt them, whereas the country was fooled into being mad at the city and striking the first blow.

It isn't necessarily the case that the people in the country are dumber. They're just the ones primed for a fight. But the con artists are working over the country people, so from the city's perspective the country people are fools.

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#307

Post by usrnm »

dachworker wrote: post #267
iammjm wrote: post #118

Europeans were perfectly happy to buy American tech und military exports, thus earning U.S. money and making EU technologically and politically dependent from the U.S. - it really was perfect for the U.S. But the US decided that it was actually a BAD DEAL and they wanted to extort even more money and dependence from EU. So now EU is investing in their own tech and military, thus reducing the amount of money US is get…

There is a weird attitude among European elites where on the one hand, they point out how European countries have always been in a subservient position within the American sphere of influence, but then, instead of cheering that this era is ending, they seem to be all upset about it and want their collar to be put back on. Help me understand this. To me it seems that maybe the interests of EU elites differ from the in…

Relying on the US for military protection allowed many European countries to save billions of their own money for years. Undoing this going to be very, very expensive and there is no good understanding where all this money is supposed come from, the main idea right now seems to be massive amounts of debt, which can get very ugly in the long run. It absolutely needs to happen, but I can clearly see why many politicians are not thrilled about the whole thing

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#308

Post by spiderfarmer »

radicalbyte wrote: post #233
concerndc1tizen wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of pro-Trump users on HN.

There's a whole pipeline designed to capture young men (Tate for the dummies, Moscow-Lex for those who aren't) who are also a key demographic here. I understand it too having seen the fallout and overstep of the "social justice left" with the reading comprehension of sewer rats - almost all American - who themselves attack white men for the crime of being white men (I've been on the receiving end a few times and I wa…

My son has seen it happen on his high school. The victims proudly proclaim to be weaponized autists. They have an outlook on life that funnels them into an incel lifestyle. If you’ve seen the Netflix series “Adolescence“ you’ll recognize that it’s downright frightening.

Talk to your kids, people.

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#309

Post by tored »

dachworker wrote: post #267
iammjm wrote: post #118

Europeans were perfectly happy to buy American tech und military exports, thus earning U.S. money and making EU technologically and politically dependent from the U.S. - it really was perfect for the U.S. But the US decided that it was actually a BAD DEAL and they wanted to extort even more money and dependence from EU. So now EU is investing in their own tech and military, thus reducing the amount of money US is get…

There is a weird attitude among European elites where on the one hand, they point out how European countries have always been in a subservient position within the American sphere of influence, but then, instead of cheering that this era is ending, they seem to be all upset about it and want their collar to be put back on. Help me understand this. To me it seems that maybe the interests of EU elites differ from the in…

What Trump did was to pull out the rug under the European establishment, which have all built their political existence on the transatlantic cooperation.

Who is to blame? European establishment wants of course the citizens of Europe to blame Trump and not them for not preparing for this eventuality.

But the truth is that almost all of them are responsible for neglecting what is the best interest of Europe. Thus they play this game.

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#310

Post by 4ndrewl »

dachworker wrote: post #267
iammjm wrote: post #118

Europeans were perfectly happy to buy American tech und military exports, thus earning U.S. money and making EU technologically and politically dependent from the U.S. - it really was perfect for the U.S. But the US decided that it was actually a BAD DEAL and they wanted to extort even more money and dependence from EU. So now EU is investing in their own tech and military, thus reducing the amount of money US is get…

There is a weird attitude among European elites where on the one hand, they point out how European countries have always been in a subservient position within the American sphere of influence, but then, instead of cheering that this era is ending, they seem to be all upset about it and want their collar to be put back on. Help me understand this. To me it seems that maybe the interests of EU elites differ from the in…

The driver for this is clear, surely? It's that we're now unsure where the USA stands viz-a-viz Russia.
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