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Boycott IETF 127

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Re: Boycott IETF 127

#301

Post by vasco »

_2d30 wrote: post #215
froh wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this gets me the wrong way. see, I live in Nuremberg, Germany. I went to school here, "higher education". I've learned a lot about fascism, how it lured voters into electing them, how they grabbed and secured power, how they introduced concentration camps ("animal protection" legislation, prohibiting kosher butchering, introduced the camps as punishment for those insisting on kosher law. twisted) I've visited two con…

AFAICT, this wasn't actually how the Germans framed the concentration camps at all. The article you responded to is about how a woman described them in 2010. The closest thing I can find is here: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/deceiving-... And this film was never even shown broadly as it was made near the end of the war. Also, it's technically for a ghetto and not a concentration camp. No AI I've…

What about this article from AP, Monday, April 24, 1933, doesn't say wellness farm, but it also isn't very accurate. Was a cursory search of contemporaneous articles and that popped up, probably not impossible to find more with similar descriptions. Enough to at least understand the message at the time was much softer than reality.

> Some 18,000 Germans from all walks of life are being held in the political concentration camps in various parts of the country.

> Wilhelm Frick, Prussian minister of the interior, explains that they will be kept there until they become "fit citizens," reconciled if not converted, to the Nazi regime of Adolf Hitler.

> Sanitary conditions generally are described as excellent. There are doctors at each camp to care for the health of the inmates, and some of them report that the political prisoners are adepts [sic] at getting on morning "sick call."

> The physical culture includes morning setting-up exercises, football matches and similar group games. The manual labor is mostly tidying up the camp premises and barracks, but there are odd Jobs too, such as sewing or painting swastika emblems on confiscated Communist flags.

> Taeglische Rundschau sees political ideas of tomorrow coming from the concentration camps of today. Quoting a prisoner as saying "Sure we'd like to get out; but this is a good enough place to think things over," the paper comments:

[0] https://newspapers.ushmm.org/historical-article/1933-camps-u...

Re: Boycott IETF 127

#302

Post by cma »

mmooss wrote: post #244
cma wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> yet it was actually no threat at all to US security or even NY security, beyond ~two buildings. If we're talking about carried out threat and not achieved aims: there were more than those two flights and more than those two buildings targeted. And even if you are talking about achieved aims only: the Pentagon was hit as well if you are forgetting that or maybe that just belongs in the '~'. In fact more than two bui…

I should have thought more carefully and included the DC buildings, but it's still only a few buildings and thousands of people. And that took an enormous amount of planning, plus luck, etc. He was never going to take over the US, defeat the US military, or endanger more people than the flu.

Keep thinking even more carefully, it was more than two buildings destroyed in NYC and a huge portion of legislative branch could have been killed if in session. Threat of total defeat of US, which Capitol attack wouldn't have caused, isn't exactly a reasonable benchmark for being the only thing that would balance out the response we had.

Re: Boycott IETF 127

#303

Post by Freak_NL »

no_time wrote: post #281
Freak_NL wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 'utopia' part was sarcastic (obviously, given the preceding paragraph). I'm sorry you didn't pick up on that. > aligning himself with more radical western ideology Such as?

My sarcasm radar was malfunctioning after reading the parent comment describing our economy as "blooming", my bad. >Such as? Gender ideology.

Does that mean you actually approve of banning something like a Pride event?

'Gender ideology' as a term is awfully vague and not really a thing outside of extreme-right politics. For some this appears to even include homosexuality and expressions of a non-binary gender identity, in addition to acknowledging the concept of gender dysphoria and transgenderism. The way the right-wing Hungarian political parties are using that term to me has nothing to with a critical or conservative stance with regards to transgender healthcare, or healthy public debate. Rather it seems to serve as a deliberately constructed straw man.

The problem is that no matter what restrictive policies and laws are enacted, gay, non-binary, transgender, and other queer Hungarians exist.

Re: Boycott IETF 127

#304

Post by Jolter »

arketyp wrote: post #71
throwawayk7h wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a threat to transgender travellers; I know many in the tech industry. The U.S. is now denying entry visas to transgender travellers as well.

[flagged]

"compensatory actions", is that how you refer to Trump's executive order regarding gender identity? As if it was "provoked" by something? Do you know there is a word for someone who is "provoked" by others gaining access to basic human rights?

Re: Boycott IETF 127

#305

Post by francasso »

assimpleaspossi wrote: post #154
orthecreedence wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I will now spend some time looking up five articles of American citizens detained in some way in Europe and other parts of the world. While you're at it, you should stick your fingers in your ears and shout LALALALALA. I love my country, but it's a real shitburger right now. Just because we haven't fully closed our borders to all foreigners doesn't mean there isn't some insidious nastiness happening right now.

I prefer to live my life by what I see and hear around me and not anonymous posts on social media and, at the moment, this HN thread is nothing but a social media post as you would see on on Reddit. It bears nothing of the reality I see and hear around me.

Not comparing Trump to Hitler, but the life style you advocate for is exactly that of most germans and italians in the 1930s

Re: Boycott IETF 127

#307

Post by dns_snek »

silisili wrote: post #96
InvisibleUp wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a webcomic, “Joe vs. Elan School”, that might be an enlightening read for you.

This actually resonates a bit with my own thoughts from these comments. If we assume a drug abuser is doomed for death in the next 6 months. But by using them as slave labor in terrible conditions for 3 years guarantees they will live to old age, regardless of any psychological trauma from said experience, is it worth it? I'm not taking a position, I'm just making a thought experiment. It's more of a moral philosophi…

> is it worth it?

The answer is a very obvious "no" in any society that claims to be free.

> I'm not taking a position

Frankly it's terrifying that these sorts of questions are being posed as real dilemmas in western societies in 2025.

Re: Boycott IETF 127

#308

Post by akimbostrawman »

onli wrote: post #228
akimbostrawman wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no mention of regular killing of foreigners. The only mention of murder is from 1990... In contrast the number of crime involving foreigners has risen 13% in 2023 to 34% of all crimes. https://www.bka.de/DE/AktuelleInformationen/StatistikenLageb...

I did not claim the article contained that information, I specifically claimed it did not. It is an example for non-deadly violence that indeed does occur regularly there. https://www.bpb.de/themen/rechtsextremismus/dossier-rechtsex... is a source for the murders and also describes why the statistics are hard to gather.

109 murder in over 30 years is not "regularly" either, more people die from falling of stairs in a single year.

Meanwhile there where over 750 group rapes/attempts in 2023 alone of which 50% of the perpetrators where foreigners. But I guess that one wouldn't count as "regularly" for you....

https://www.br.de/nachrichten/bayern/gruppenvergewaltigungen...

Re: Boycott IETF 127

#309

Post by _cenw »

eqvinox wrote: post #276

Wondering why this is flagged. Sure, it's politics, but it's also a serious issue on one of the major internet SDOs. It's certainly relevant for "good hackers"?

Cowardice.

Fence-sitting these days is a political decision all by itself. Well, it always was, but now that we've established a new normal (that's not very normal) rooting for the status quo is even more partisan.

Re: Boycott IETF 127

#310

Post by _cenw »

chgs wrote: post #177
sam-cop-vimes wrote: post #10

Hear hear. Great initiative. I am not in the US but I do feel threatened by the way the US is conducting itself these days. It's time for people working in tech to push back.

Half the people on HN either support what’s happening in the US now or say “doesn’t directly affect me so leave me out of it” as if this is an argument about yankees vs mets.

I feel like we took the wrong lessons from atrocities in history. We treat them like they happened before some special enlightenment that magically shields us from history repeating, so it's okay to face the early warning signs with apathy or paint anything as a difference in opinion. Surely someone will care when things escalate; surely there would be an outcry more loud than this if it was serious.

Maybe teaching about the holocaust should be accompanied with copies of daily newspapers from the late 1930s to demonstrate their mundanity.

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