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MacBook Air M4

apple.com

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Re: MacBook Air M4

#301

Post by torstenvl »

klausa wrote: post #155
electrograv wrote: post #131

I really wish Apple would make a MacBook Air variant with display quality on par with the iPad Pro or MacBook Pro (ProMotion/120hz and XDR/HDR, at least). The screen quality is the only reason I currently use the Pro despite its chunkier weight, since the local compute/memory of the Air is already plenty for me (and most users). The iPad Pro proves that weight and battery life is no excuse here for the lack of state-…

I wish for that machine too; and the price delta between the Macs is why I expect this will never happen. And unfortunately, I'd rather spend the extra bucks than go back to 60hz. Apple seems quite content with making 120hz a feature of "Pro" models across the line (iPads, iPhones, Macs).

Portability is a pro feature.

The truth of the matter is that Apple does not currently sell a single premium device. Every single one requires serious compromises.

Re: MacBook Air M4

#302

Post by webdever »

electrograv wrote: post #131

I really wish Apple would make a MacBook Air variant with display quality on par with the iPad Pro or MacBook Pro (ProMotion/120hz and XDR/HDR, at least). The screen quality is the only reason I currently use the Pro despite its chunkier weight, since the local compute/memory of the Air is already plenty for me (and most users). The iPad Pro proves that weight and battery life is no excuse here for the lack of state-…

As others have said, they do this on purpose. It's the same with memory. I'd probably switch from a Pro to an Air if I could get 64gig ram (for LLM work) but they'd rather charge me $4800 instead of ~$3200 (guessing the price given the top end 32gig Air is $2800)

It's frustrating because I'd prefer a lighter device. In fact, even the Air isn't that light compared to its competition.

I'd happily pay +$500 ($5300) for Macbook Air PRO if it was effectively the same specs as Macbook Pro but 1.5lbs lighter.

Re: MacBook Air M4

#303

Post by hnuser123456 »

brk wrote: post #265
meindnoch wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you try using a 60hz screen after a 120hz one, it will feel very sluggish and choppy. As long as you don't get used to 120hz, you'll be fine with 60hz.

I've never really felt this way, and have used all kinds of screens of various resolutions, sizes, technologies, etc. For 99% of the typical use cases (chats, email, doom scrolling, etc.) there just is not a big enough perceptible difference for most buyers. Screen refresh rate arguments are starting to have hints of audiophile discussions.

I flatly will not buy any monitor, laptop, phone, tablet, or TV with a refresh rate below 120hz. I had 120hz 1080p over DVI-dual link in 2010. I can accept graphically demanding games going down to ~50 fps, but for UI interactivity and navigation, I'll take 120hz+ only.

Re: MacBook Air M4

#304

Post by gloxkiqcza »

kokada wrote: post #263
electrograv wrote: post #131

I really wish Apple would make a MacBook Air variant with display quality on par with the iPad Pro or MacBook Pro (ProMotion/120hz and XDR/HDR, at least). The screen quality is the only reason I currently use the Pro despite its chunkier weight, since the local compute/memory of the Air is already plenty for me (and most users). The iPad Pro proves that weight and battery life is no excuse here for the lack of state-…

Hell, I would be happy if Apple at least enabled the virtualization instructions that are already available in the Mx chips inside the iPads, and allowed e.g.: something like UTM in Apple Store with Hypervisor support. It would be a good differentiator between the cheaper iPads running Ax chips vs the more expensive iPads running Mx. Considering the powerful hardware, the form factor and the good keyboard (I have a u…

If Apple offered macOS VM as a (paid) app for iPads I would buy one.

Re: MacBook Air M4

#305

Post by insane_dreamer »

ylee wrote: post #296
insane_dreamer wrote: post #105

For all the talk of the "Apple Tax", point me to a comparable laptop from another company at this price point. I don't think there has been one since Apple started the M series.

20 years ago, when I helped cover IT hardware including AAPL for a large investment bank, our analyses consistently showed that Apple products were comparable in price to competing products with comparable specs . I agree that Apple Silicon has given Apple an additional leg up on the competition, even aside from the more-than-competitive price.

Agreed. My (former) x86 Macbook was the best out there at that price. The only other laptop I found that was comparable (this was ~10 years ago) was the Thinkpad Carbon X1 (and the Thinkpads in general back when they were still high quality; not sure I would buy one now), but it was similar in price to the Macbook.

Re: MacBook Air M4

#306

Post by seanmcdirmid »

webdever wrote: post #302
electrograv wrote: post #131

I really wish Apple would make a MacBook Air variant with display quality on par with the iPad Pro or MacBook Pro (ProMotion/120hz and XDR/HDR, at least). The screen quality is the only reason I currently use the Pro despite its chunkier weight, since the local compute/memory of the Air is already plenty for me (and most users). The iPad Pro proves that weight and battery life is no excuse here for the lack of state-…

As others have said, they do this on purpose. It's the same with memory. I'd probably switch from a Pro to an Air if I could get 64gig ram (for LLM work) but they'd rather charge me $4800 instead of ~$3200 (guessing the price given the top end 32gig Air is $2800) It's frustrating because I'd prefer a lighter device. In fact, even the Air isn't that light compared to its competition. I'd happily pay +$500 ($5300) for…

I'm not sure a Macbook Air with only passive cooling would be the best machine for running an LLM that would fit into ~40GB of GPU accessible memory.

> I'd happily pay +$500 ($5300) for Macbook Air PRO if it was effectively the same specs as Macbook Pro but 1.5lbs lighter.

You basically want a macbook pro. I don't think it could be that thin with active cooling that such a configuration would require.

Re: MacBook Air M4

#307

Post by bdcravens »

stetrain wrote: post #235
bdcravens wrote: post #168

Is this the first Macbook Air to support multiple monitors? I'm kind of surprised that's not highlighted instead of buried down in the page.

The M3 series was able to support two external displays with the laptop closed. M4 can do two external displays with the laptop screen active as well.

Doing it with the laptop open is what I'd be interested in, as that's been my working style for years. I've had a couple of Airs, but ended up having to use a Display Link hub and software to support multiple displays, which wasn't ideal.

Re: MacBook Air M4

#308

Post by seanmcdirmid »

crazygringo wrote: post #180
overstay8930 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know Apple wants to differentiate ProMotion as a Pro feature, but even non-tech people I know are wondering why Android phones run smoother than iPhones. Stuff that would be completely unheard of purely because of how noticeable 60hz vs 120hz is. Actual reputational damage is going on because of these poor decisions, I’m not surprised iPhones are struggling to obtain new market share. They just look like old and sl…

> but even non-tech people I know are wondering why Android phones run smoother than iPhones. Stuff that would be completely unheard of purely because of how noticeable 60hz vs 120hz is. Are they? I'm a tech person and I can barely notice it at all. And I don't think I have a single non-tech friend who is even aware of the concept of video refresh rate. Whenever there's something that doesn't feel smooth about an int…

It just feels more "fluid" and real, and then you get used to it and 60Hz feels jittery. I have an iPad pro, and its honestly made me consider going with an iPhone Pro (I still have just the non-pro model), although not quite yet. However, I notice a huge difference between scrolling on my phone and scrolling on my ipad.

Its the same thing about retina vs. the previous resolutions we had put up with. Yes, you don't need them for text, but once you get used to it for text you don't want to go back.

Re: MacBook Air M4

#309

Post by stringsandchars »

klausa wrote: post #215
crazygringo wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but even non-tech people I know are wondering why Android phones run smoother than iPhones. Stuff that would be completely unheard of purely because of how noticeable 60hz vs 120hz is. Are they? I'm a tech person and I can barely notice it at all. And I don't think I have a single non-tech friend who is even aware of the concept of video refresh rate. Whenever there's something that doesn't feel smooth about an int…

I actually call BS on the "not-being-able-to-tell". I will give you that most people outside of this websites audience will not be able to _tell_ it's because of the refresh rate. But I am quite confident if you take most of 120hz iPhone users phones out of their hand, turn on low battery mode, most will be immediately able to tell that something _feels_ off.

> I actually call BS on the "not-being-able-to-tell".

I actually call BS on your BS.

I don't believe that people are standing with two phones in their hand - an Android and an iPhone - and comparing them the way that people here are suggesting. I don't think I have ever seen anyone do that IRL, and I don't believe anyone actually does it.

People go to the Apple Store to get their iPhone or to some other store to get their Android phone, because they are interested in either platform, and absolutely not thinking about hopping from one to the other based on some imperceptible screen-refresh 'smoothness'.

Re: MacBook Air M4

#310

Post by gloxkiqcza »

gavinray wrote: post #273
ruuda wrote: post #247

My 4-year old Dell XPS 15 is up for replacement, but somehow no manufacturer aside from Apple is making laptop with decent specs nowadays? I want 2TB storage, a 4k (or close) HiDPI display, good build quality, and not a bulky gaming laptop. The XPS 15 was perfect, it had those specs, except it only had 1TB storage which is now full. I was expecting that to not be an issue 4 years later ... But now Dell discontinued X…

Gen question: why do people care how bulky a laptop is? I buy gaming laptops because they're the only powerful laptops and their size has never bothered me when traveling

Do you only ever travel by car? Serious question.
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