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Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

bbc.com

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Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#301

Post by guax »

GMoromisato wrote: post #270

I would like to know what the alternatives are. None that I can think of are palatable: 1. Support Ukraine enough so that Russia doesn't take too much more territory, but not enough for Russia to feel threatened and escalate the war. This was the Biden plan and it sounds like what Europe wants. I just don't see how this ends the war. Is this just buying time for someone to depose Putin? 2. Support Ukraine enough so i…

The goal was always to support Ukraine for long enough to pressure Russia into the negotiation table, the concessions could varied, no one knows. Ukraine knows it cannot get it all, but they know they won't settle for nothing either.

We know this given how close even Trump got to having discussions with both parties. His competence was not there to finish any deal and took the worse turn possible.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#303

Post by AlexatParis »

I am born in Ukraine and live now in Europe. As European I may understand your disappointment with the West letting down some "rules based" order and democratic values. Yet as Ukrainian, I know unfortunately that the premises of the "rules based world" do not apply to many regions in the world, inclusive Ukraine. Let me explain, a rule-based order means that the monopoly of violence is the privilege of the state: if a bad guy annoys, you get them arrested by the police and sued by the justice. In international relations, the cop was the US. But if you live in a region where US cannot or just doesn't want to play the cop (for the seek of is interests : think to Saudi Arabia..) then you finish up in a 'violent world' where the order comes from the violence and power. If you accept that such regions exist, you become a realist (see mersheimer) And if you are realist, you do not understand why Zelensky has sacrificed 1million people while another strategy would have been more suited: accept the neutrality, play the economic development, play the cultural development (remeber that economy and culture are the weak parts of Putin's policy) and gain margins of independence step by step.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#304

Post by jimmydoe »

seydor wrote: post #82

It looks like the US wants a regime change in Ukraine, it's possible that this became a pre condition from russia for talks to go forward. OTOH, a minerals deal with the US ensures that the US will have a stake in defending the postwar ukraine. Lots of drama and optics involved for sure, but it seems the outcome or the talks was predetermined JdVance will not last for long - is there procedure to replace him?

The outcome was predetermined. Z was not fully sold on this, and Trump/Vance just wanted to maximize the optics, hence the fall out. Just a small ripple, the deep states will rebalance this out.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#305

Post by soerxpso »

hayst4ck wrote: post #141

The American government has been compromised by Russia. It no longer represents American interests, but Russian interests. Whether the senior powers in America are compromised, complicit, or opportunist, it doesn't matter. America is being damaged. Russian interests are being prioritized over American interests. Our military is too powerful for direct conflict, so alternative conflict against our political structure…

In what way is it in my interest to give hundreds of billions of my nation's money toward fighting an unwinnable conflict on the other side of the world over which corrupt sex trafficking organization will control a small plot of land? The Cold War propaganda derangement that still exists in the minds of certain people is insane.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#306

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

sleepyguy wrote: post #6

It was as if they invited him to the Whitehouse to set him up for a lecture and scolding. They had no intention of anything other than humiliating him in front of the world. It's shameful what our administration has done.

The joke is on them.

The one's humiliated on the global scale are the ones who are lying through their teeth with less than zero class.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#307

Post by AI_beffr »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #10

Ukraine is in a bind, and the US has the power to do whatever it wants. But boy, will the nations of the world remember this -- how quickly the US can turn from ally to bully. A really bad day for US foreign policy. The EU is going to be thinking long and hard about the future of NATO now.

[flagged]

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#308

Post by VeejayRampay »

absolute display of debased cowardice

if you're american and you're able to watch the video without feeling either ashamed or revolted, know that absolutely no one in the world respects the cloth you're cut from, except for the the worst dictators and their lackeys

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