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When your last name is Null, nothing works

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Re: When your last name is Null, nothing works

#301

Post by Two4 »

sensanaty wrote: post #275
mike_hearn wrote: post #249

Ironically, this article is full of the sort of semantic confusions that cause the problem in the first place. The reporter clearly hasn't run the article past an actual programmer as she seems to think this outcome is a deliberate design choice rather than a bug: > Null was first programmed 60 years ago by a British computer scientist named Tony Hoare ... Hoare probably wasn’t thinking about people with the 4,910th…

> > “It’s a difficult problem to solve because it’s so widespread,” said Daan Leijen, a researcher at Microsoft, who says the company avoids use of null values in its software. > Whatever Leijen said, I'm pretty sure it wasn't that. I had a good lol when I read that, imagining some top-level decree to NEVER use null values in any context in all of Microsoft

Afaik, there does exist a decree in most teams at MS to not use null if it can be avoided, and any attempt to do so is likely going to be flagged in code review - or so I'm told.

Re: When your last name is Null, nothing works

#302

Post by mrunkel »

hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #186
mrunkel wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can confirm that PHP doesn't have this problem. if ("null" == null) { echo "true"; } else { echo "false"; } prints "false"

Is this php5 or a more recent version? That is hugely relevant when it comes to pho and something I should have mentioned in my original post (no idea if this specific thing would work in pho5, but there are other weird things)

I tested "all supported" but this is explicitly for 5:

https://3v4l.org/cFc5I#v5.4.45

Re: When your last name is Null, nothing works

#303

Post by qingcharles »

thih9 wrote: post #234
jwr wrote: post #223

This is terrifying, because it implies that so many computer systems interpret user-supplied data as what should be out-of-band values. No computer system should ever interpret what is in the "last name" field, it should be a sequence of characters only. Every attempt at interpretation is an exploit waiting to happen.

You are right. At the same time this is a very common issue and an attack vector[1][2][3]. E.g.: an existing book called " alert("!Mediengruppe Bitnik"); " is still not shown correctly by some websites[4]. [1]: SQL injection: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL_injection [2]: Cross-site scripting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-site_scripting [3]: Exploits of a Mom (Bobby Tables) XKCD: https://xkcd.com/327/ [4]: h…

I used this technique on an auction site once. It allowed the script tag in my username, so I used it to remove the "bid" button once I had bid -- nobody behind me could outbid me.

It went about as well as you would expect using it for fraud. Which is to say, not well at all (；´Д｀)

Re: When your last name is Null, nothing works

#304

Post by impossiblefork »

hashmush wrote: post #254
kstrauser wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, that's also relevant to me! I've checked my local laws, and where I live, your legal name is the one you consistently present yourself as. If you're Joe Frank Smith, and you go by Frank everywhere, that's your legal name . I've gotten so tired of having this argument. Inevitably some clerk will insist on calling me by my first name, "you know, your legal name ". No. My middle name is my legal name. It's what my…

Sweden has a sensible solution to this (im sure others do too). When you register a name you specify which part is the tilltalsnamn (lit. name of adress). In your case, the names would be disambiguated as Joe Frank Smith and Joe Frank Smith. Not all systems use that piece of information, but most do.

Yes. I'm Swedish and American TSA/airport security not understanding this is why I mentioned it.

Re: When your last name is Null, nothing works

#305

Post by Ferret7446 »

mike_hearn wrote: post #249

Ironically, this article is full of the sort of semantic confusions that cause the problem in the first place. The reporter clearly hasn't run the article past an actual programmer as she seems to think this outcome is a deliberate design choice rather than a bug: > Null was first programmed 60 years ago by a British computer scientist named Tony Hoare ... Hoare probably wasn’t thinking about people with the 4,910th…

Unfortunately, that seems to be the quality of "professional" journalism nowadays. I wouldn't be surprised if AI was complicit as well (though I don't supposed it'd make a difference as the slop was just as low quality prior to recent years, it may as well have been AI generated then too).

It used to be indie publications, and now I find indie YouTubers tend to be generally superior (though you still have to do your own filtering and selection of course).

Re: When your last name is Null, nothing works

#307

Post by oskarw85 »

kstrauser wrote: post #109
impossiblefork wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or people whose middle name is their first name.

Hey, that's also relevant to me! I've checked my local laws, and where I live, your legal name is the one you consistently present yourself as. If you're Joe Frank Smith, and you go by Frank everywhere, that's your legal name . I've gotten so tired of having this argument. Inevitably some clerk will insist on calling me by my first name, "you know, your legal name ". No. My middle name is my legal name. It's what my…

But how are all those people supposed to know that beforehand? Call yourself whatever you want but don't expect anyone to deal with your name-fuckery. It's called first name for a reason.

Re: When your last name is Null, nothing works

#308

Post by oskarw85 »

easton wrote: post #69
boxed wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean.. there are tons of people without last names in the world. https://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-...

And first names, which causes some government agencies to put FNU in that field for "first name unknown". My mom told me about a time they had someone with that situation at work, and people would call the person FNU until they were corrected.

FI²N sounds like a nice first name (Fuck If I Know)

Re: When your last name is Null, nothing works

#309

Post by Huppie »

sensanaty wrote: post #274
DC-3 wrote: post #16

I have my own mildly amusing story of breaking systems with my name. I have a twin with the same first initial. Any time we had to use a system at school which constructed usernames from some combination of first initial, surname, and date of birth, only one account would be provisioned between the two of us. It became almost a ritual in the first term of the school year for us to make a visit to IT Support and reque…

I never know whether to use the ć in my name when signing up for systems that require full legal names (banks et al.). Even my own country's gov't sites break when I input my real name, but refuses to accept the name without the ć. It was a real pain in the ass when I had to make an appointment and go in to some dingy office at 6am because their system doesn't support one of the most common letters in Serbian names.…

My first name starts with the 'letter' (digraph, actually [0]) IJ.

I have a standard email I send to companies not honoring the only correct Dutch spelling of my name and/or initials.

The GDPR makes it mandatory for companies to correctly process your personal details so while it can take a while sometimes it's gotten a lot better over the years.

In your case (assuming you live in the EU) there's plenty of precedent to send a standard email like that too. Even banks have been forced kicking and screaming to fix it [1].

[0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IJ_(digraph) [1]: https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2021/10/ebcdic-is-incompatible-with...

Re: When your last name is Null, nothing works

#310

Post by boxed »

whycome wrote: post #187
boxed wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean.. there are tons of people without last names in the world. https://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-...

Well if you have one name, that's your last name.

I assume you're making a joke. In any case, no that's not true. Because if it's your first and last name and you type it in both fields, you are now screwed in a different way.
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