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Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

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Re: Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

#301
post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have the "resist fingerprinting" setting enabled in Firefox? (You can check in about:config)

"privacy.resistFingerprinting" is "true", yes, and it'll stay that way. Why let me solve a puzzle just to block me afterwards anyway?

To let you know who wears the pants in the relationship :)

Re: Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

#302
Oligopolies are nasty. In lack of regulation, don't take business to actors like Cloudflare and talk to your local politicians.

There's also another reason, Cloudflare is under the CLOUD Act, can't be trusted to touch the PII of EU citizens for legal reasons or anyone for moral reasons.

Re: Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

#303

Yesterday I was attempting to buy a product on a small retailer's website—as soon as I hit the "add to cart" button I got a message from Cloudflare: "Sorry, you have been blocked". My only recourse was to message the owner of the domain asking them to unblock me. Of course, I didn't, and decided to buy the product elsewhere. I wasn't doing anything suspicious.. using Arc on a M1 MBP; normal browsing habits. Not sure…

To access any site protected by cloudflare captcha i have to change browsers from firefox to chrome. and i have basically default suite of addons (ublock is the only one affecting the pages themselves).

VPN doesn't matter, i probably share IP with someone "flagged" via ISP.

Every site, that is except their cloudlfare dashboard.

Re: Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

#304

Yesterday I was attempting to buy a product on a small retailer's website—as soon as I hit the "add to cart" button I got a message from Cloudflare: "Sorry, you have been blocked". My only recourse was to message the owner of the domain asking them to unblock me. Of course, I didn't, and decided to buy the product elsewhere. I wasn't doing anything suspicious.. using Arc on a M1 MBP; normal browsing habits. Not sure…

Vendors who block iCloud Relay are the worst. I'm sure they don't even know they're doing it. But some significant percentage of Apple users -- and you'd have to think it's only gonna grow -- comes from those IP address ranges.

Bad business, guys. You gotta find another way. Blocking IP addresses is o-ver.

Re: Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> using Arc on a M1 MBP; normal browsing habits. Well i've certainly never heard of this browser before and it still seems pretty young. I'd guess it's the same issue.

I think it's also EOL/not getting updates now? I mean I never used it, their only selling point seem to have been hype.

Definitely not EOL; https://resources.arc.net/hc/en-us/articles/20498293324823-A...

Re: Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arc is almost 3 (4?) years old and was the darling child of dev influencers for the better part of 2 years. It's not a niche browser, especially amongst devs that are likely to work at Cloudflare.

It's definitely a niche browser. I think I heard of it once on HN over the past few years, and I'd be surprised if there was actually more than a few thousands of people using it.

Its subreddit has 52k members. There are probably hundreds of thousands of users. Still a niche browser, but it's pretty commonly used on Macs.

Re: Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

#307
post #300
post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lost sales due to 2fa are greater than losses due to refunds

Why would 2FA cause lose sales? One would imagine it’s because people are being auto charged for shit they don’t want but haven’t noticed or forgot to cancel.

[deleted]

Re: Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

#308
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rate limiting based on IP, blocking obvious datacenter ASNs and blocking identifiable JA3 fingerprints is quite simple and surprisingly effective in stopping most scrapers and can be done entirely server side, I wouldn't be surprised if this catches more than half of problematic requests to the average website. But I agree that if you have a website "worth" scraping there will probably be some individuals motivated e…

> blocking obvious datacenter ASNs You block all VPN users then, and currently many countries have some kind of censorship, please don't do that. I use a personal VPN for over 5 years and that's annoying. I understand the other side and captcha/POW captchas/additional checks is okay. But give people a choice to be private/non-censorable. Enabling/disabling a VPN each minute to access the non-censored local site which…

That's a fair point, probably the best approach would be to do a client side challenge where the server side challenge fails but at that point it's no longer as simple of a setup. Toggling a VPN is definitely annoying but a captcha or something like POW do come with an impact to user experience as well and in my experience are easier (and cheaper) to deal with for bots, a good quality residential proxy where you pay per GB quickly becomes a lot more expensive than a captcha solver service or the compute for a POW challenge.

Re: Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arc is almost 3 (4?) years old and was the darling child of dev influencers for the better part of 2 years. It's not a niche browser, especially amongst devs that are likely to work at Cloudflare.

It's definitely a niche browser. I think I heard of it once on HN over the past few years, and I'd be surprised if there was actually more than a few thousands of people using it.

I would be surprised if it were that low; the arcbrowser sub Reddit has 50 thousand members. Still, regardless of the actual figure, I think there's a broader point which avoids the need to agree on an absolute threshold: should cloudflare block access to websites using a blacklist or should it grant access using a whitelist? Especially since it's trivial to spoof your user agent.

Re: Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

#310

Yesterday I was attempting to buy a product on a small retailer's website—as soon as I hit the "add to cart" button I got a message from Cloudflare: "Sorry, you have been blocked". My only recourse was to message the owner of the domain asking them to unblock me. Of course, I didn't, and decided to buy the product elsewhere. I wasn't doing anything suspicious.. using Arc on a M1 MBP; normal browsing habits. Not sure…

> using Arc on a M1 MBP; normal browsing habits. Well i've certainly never heard of this browser before and it still seems pretty young. I'd guess it's the same issue.

I'm still not sure how some random browser should result in a block by the provider. I don't think there's any security risk for the provider of the site by using an outdated browser. Blocking malicious IPs yes/maybe, blocking suspicious acitivity maybe. But because you have browser X - please not.

This is going to lead two a two-class internet where new technologies will not emerge and big players will win because the gate the high is so absurdly high and random that people stop to invent.

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