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String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

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Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#301

Post by anon84873628 »

__turbobrew__ wrote: post #189

This whole rabbit hole of rationalism, less wrong, and ziz feels like a fever dream to me. Roaming trans veganist tatical death squads shooting border officers and stabbing 80 year olds with swords. This is the kind of thing where it is warranted that the feds gets every single wiretap, interception, and surveillance possible on everyone involved in the zizian movement.

Calling them a roaming band or "tactical death squad" is giving far too much credit. It is a handful of crazy people who convinced themselves that a couple murders would solve their problems.

In particular the attack on border patrol was obviously random and illogical. And the fact that no one was convicted of the Pennsylvania murders seems to reflect more on the police and prosecutors than the intelligence of the perpetrators.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#302

Post by concordDance »

__turbobrew__ wrote: post #189

This whole rabbit hole of rationalism, less wrong, and ziz feels like a fever dream to me. Roaming trans veganist tatical death squads shooting border officers and stabbing 80 year olds with swords. This is the kind of thing where it is warranted that the feds gets every single wiretap, interception, and surveillance possible on everyone involved in the zizian movement.

Conflating ziz and less wrong feels a bit like conflating Aiden Hale with the LGBTQ movement or the Branch Davidians with Christianity.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#303

Post by Texasian »

nullc wrote: post #132
nkurz wrote: post #49

Most of the news coverage I've seen of this story is omitting what some might consider a relevant detail: almost all the members of this group are trans. This is a divisive topic, but failing to mention this makes me worry a story is pushing a particular agenda rather than trying to tell the facts. Here's what the story looks like if the trans activism is considered central to the story: https://thepostmillennial.com…

I think the relevance of their transness is not very significant. The lesswrong apocalypse cult has been feeding people's mental illness for years. Their transness likely made them more outsiders to the cult proper, so e.g. they didn't get diverted off into becoming Big Yud's BSDM "math pets" like other women in the cult. I doubt they are significantly more mentally ill than other members of the cult they just had le…

… lesswrong apocalypse cult?

Like the guy who wrote that insufferable Harry Potter fanfiction?

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#305

Post by dcrazy »

abecedarius wrote: post #248
dang wrote: post #84

After puzzling over the threads on this head-spinning story, my sense is that maybe the most neutral thing to do is re-up this submission of a news report and merge most of the comments hither. The other recent threads are/were: The Zizians (2020) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42898323 The Zizians and the rationalist death cult - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42897871 Suspects in 2 murder cases shared…

The submitter of this story inserted 'rationalist' into the title; it's not in the headline and IMO it's calumny. Would you take it back out?

I also inserted “rationalist” into my submission of this story because it’s an accurate description of the group.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#306

Post by concordDance »

__turbobrew__ wrote: post #211
nejsjsjsbsb wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Split the beliefs from the crime. A bunch of murderers were caught. Given they are dangerous killers, one killing a witness and one faking their death yeah they should get warrants.

It appears the ven diagram of the beliefs and crimes overlap quite a bit. Sometimes the beliefs are that certain crimes should be committed. This is a free country (disputably) and you should be able to think and say whatever you want, but I also think it is reasonable for law enforcement in the investigation of said crimes to also investigate links to other members in the movement.

> It appears the ven diagram of the beliefs and crimes overlap quite a bit.

There are hundreds of thousands of rationalists (to a greater or lesser extent). Very few go shoot people.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#307

Post by thrance »

positus wrote: post #282
watwut wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are also openly hated by general society and targeted for bullying by major political actors.

Most people don't hate trans people, they just think they believe things that do not correspond to biological reality; ie. they have an illness that is negatively affecting their mind and they need compassion and help. Those same people want to minimize social exposure to provably contagious, harmful, and absurd ideas like gender fluidity.

People also rejected homosexuality because it was "unnatural". Indeed, gender dysphoria is an illness, and the only effective cure is transition, as shown by the countless meta-studies on the subject.

Do you really believe Trump and his goons want to show "compassion and help" to trans people, by taking away their passports, their medicine, barring them from the military, accusing them of grooming children, etc.? The list goes on.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#308

Post by anon84873628 »

sam345 wrote: post #194

Doesn't sound rationalist to me (from Ziz quoted section of article linked below): "Ziz Impostors keep thinking it's safe to impersonate single goods. A nice place to slide in psyche/shadow, false faces, "who could ever falsify that I'm blaming it on my headmate!" Saying you're single good is saying, "Help, I have a Yeerk in my head that's a mirror image of me. I need you to surgically destroy it, even if I'm then cr…

what the heck does any of this mean??

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#309

Post by kranke155 »

adastra22 wrote: post #90
zozbot234 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> almost all the members of this group are trans. The Zizians.info site (linked by one of the HN posts re: this story) mentions that the Zizians did target people who identified as transgender for indoctrination, so this is not really surprising. People who are undergoing this kind of stress and marginalization may well be more vulnerable to such tactics.

The Ziz method of indoctrination involves convincing his minions they are trapped inside a mental framework they need to break free of. Trans people already feel trapped in a body not aligned with who they are, and are naturally susceptible to this message (and therefore natural targets for recruitment).

Yes and no. Lots of people feel trapped. He/she (I’m not sure who this Ziz is) just sounds like someone who knew they could work their work into trans people.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#310

Post by wat10000 »

Barrin92 wrote: post #281
wat10000 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s hilarious to me that Roko’s Basilisk maps perfectly to Pascal’s Wager, but they just can’t see it. It’s like any other exclusive religion: your god is made up, ours is real.

>Roko’s Basilisk maps perfectly to Pascal’s Wager The entire thing maps 1:1 onto Millenarian theology, including the singularity and literal doomsday rhetoric. I think it was Charles Stross who called it duck typed Evangelicalism at one point

> duck typed Evangelicalism

I definitely need to remember that one.

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