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Is the world becoming uninsurable?

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Re: Is the world becoming uninsurable?

#301

Post by willvarfar »

_tariky wrote: post #230
Animats wrote: post #107

Not uninsurable, but buildings are going to have to become tougher. It's happened before. Chicago's reaction to the Great Fire was simple - no more building wooden houses. Chicago went all brick. Still is, mostly. The trouble is, brick isn't earthquake resistant. Not without steel reinforcement. I live in a house built of cinder block filled with concrete reinforced with steel. A commercial builder built this as his…

In Yugoslavia, in 1969, one of the biggest earthquakes occurred, destroying several cities. After that, the country’s leaders decided to change building codes. Even today, although Yugoslavia no longer exists, the countries that adopted those codes have homes capable of withstanding earthquakes up to 7.5 on the Richter scale. My main point is that if we face major natural disasters, we need to take action to mitigate…

(Recently there was a major public building collapse in Serbia: the porch of the Novi Sad railway station collapsed, killing 15 people. This has really focused attention on corruption and caused massive protests.)

Re: Is the world becoming uninsurable?

#302

Post by areoform »

nobodywillobsrv wrote: post #289
johnisgood wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm surprised that the damages of the LA fire occurred, because it was known beforehand that California had a fire problem (and also have an earthquake problem I think). I'm here in Eastern Europe and our buildings can withstand a lot of things. > we need to take action to mitigate their impact in the future. As a foreigner, it seems to me that Americans prioritize building cheap homes over constructing better…

The government banned insurance companies from raising prices. They used tax payer money to subsidize this for a while which increase home prices. Eventually insurance companies stopped offering insurance. When state actors even dabble in socialism disasters happen people die.

> Gov. Gavin Newsom just released part of his solution to California’s home insurance crisis, and it boils down to a push to allow carriers to move faster to raise rates.

> In most cases, the Department of Insurance would be required to act on an insurance carrier’s rate request within 60 days, unless extensions are necessary.

> The proposed bill expedites the timelines laid out in Proposition 103, which requires insurance companies to have changes approved by the Department of Insurance and dictates how quickly the department must act on change requests.

> Critics fear that shortening approval timelines will allow insurance companies to jack-up premiums without room for public appeals and sufficient review by the Department of Insurance.

https://sfstandard.com/2024/05/30/california-insurance-crisi...

Re: Is the world becoming uninsurable?

#303

Post by manmal »

cbracketdash wrote: post #290
manmal wrote: post #267

Naive question, but why not raise taxes in hazardous areas, and use that money for a state-run insurance?

Naive answer, but I think this exists and is called the FAIR plan. See here: https://stateline.org/2025/01/16/california-fires-show-state...

That one doesn’t discriminate by location I think?

Re: Is the world becoming uninsurable?

#304

Post by consp »

Panzer04 wrote: post #259
_tariky wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Yugoslavia, in 1969, one of the biggest earthquakes occurred, destroying several cities. After that, the country’s leaders decided to change building codes. Even today, although Yugoslavia no longer exists, the countries that adopted those codes have homes capable of withstanding earthquakes up to 7.5 on the Richter scale. My main point is that if we face major natural disasters, we need to take action to mitigate…

Why bother building a better home when it's cheaper to buy insurance and rebuild later? This is why prices are important - sometimes it's sensible to build cheaper houses without these safeties if the risk isn't there, but if the risk does exist then it needs to be priced right to provide that incentive.

Only you also take into account your cheap home will likely accelerate the problem. Which never happens.

Re: Is the world becoming uninsurable?

#305

Post by lionkor »

wakawaka28 wrote: post #297
johnisgood wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm surprised that the damages of the LA fire occurred, because it was known beforehand that California had a fire problem (and also have an earthquake problem I think). I'm here in Eastern Europe and our buildings can withstand a lot of things. > we need to take action to mitigate their impact in the future. As a foreigner, it seems to me that Americans prioritize building cheap homes over constructing better…

The fire problem can be managed by burning or removing some of the dead wood, and building adequate water storage. Apparently California has been neglecting those two problems for decades.

It could also be helped by not building houses out of cardboard.

The amount of walls in Europe that you could punch a wall into is low enough that you shouldnt try.

Re: Is the world becoming uninsurable?

#306

Post by wakawaka28 »

iandanforth wrote: post #133
Sabinus wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the market is allowed to price insurance correctly then we can motivate building designs to be more disaster resist. If the McMansion can't get insurance but disaster resistant, modest homes do, then people will adapt.

"Correctly" is doing a lot of work here. Some readers might miss that this is double edged. Insurance is a mandated product . You don't have a choice if you want a mortgage, or want to run a business. So while it is true that the sustainable price for insurance in many areas is higher than what current regulations allow, let's not forget what happens in an unregulated insurance market; price gouging.

Insurance (at least the kind we are talking about) is only mandatory if you have loans, and even then it is not 100% mandated. We do need insurance regulations, but price caps limit what things actually make sense to cover. To put it another way, you are free to buy land in a risky area if you want, but nobody has to insure it or loan you money for it. If you find someone who will loan you the money if you can get insurance, then you can't get insurance, that sucks for you but nobody owes it to you to hand over money on a losing investment. These requirements can be abused, but there really isn't much evidence of insurers, lenders, and investors colluding to rip people off.

Re: Is the world becoming uninsurable?

#307

Post by lionkor »

euroderf wrote: post #299

Does it make any sense to talk about the foundations and the upper structures as being separately insurable ? Can foundations be reused ?

I assume the foundations are concrete, and the rest is wood, cardboard and any combination of the two, so I could see that the foundation would survive a fire

Re: Is the world becoming uninsurable?

#308

Post by hbarka »

wakawaka28 wrote: post #297
johnisgood wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm surprised that the damages of the LA fire occurred, because it was known beforehand that California had a fire problem (and also have an earthquake problem I think). I'm here in Eastern Europe and our buildings can withstand a lot of things. > we need to take action to mitigate their impact in the future. As a foreigner, it seems to me that Americans prioritize building cheap homes over constructing better…

The fire problem can be managed by burning or removing some of the dead wood, and building adequate water storage. Apparently California has been neglecting those two problems for decades.

Frankly, this is just an ignorant take. Put Twitter/Elon Musk down for a bit. The Palisades Fire was not a forest fire. Please dispel your myths and learn what 60-80 mph winds, sometimes 100 mph gusts, can do.

Re: Is the world becoming uninsurable?

#309

Post by lionkor »

ezequiel-garzon wrote: post #255
MagicMoonlight wrote: post #217

What are we betting that the Americans rebuild in wood again? It seems like they never learn. We had a single city fire like this 500 years ago and since then we haven’t… because we built the city back in brick instead of wood.

Where 500 years ago?

Europe, a lot of cities went though a few large fires and then went "facepalm oh!!! maybe we should try stone!"

Re: Is the world becoming uninsurable?

#310

Post by TheCapeGreek »

ohazi wrote: post #220
MagicMoonlight wrote: post #217

What are we betting that the Americans rebuild in wood again? It seems like they never learn. We had a single city fire like this 500 years ago and since then we haven’t… because we built the city back in brick instead of wood.

Earthquakes. Options are wood again, or steel and concrete.

Somehow, all these nations around the world with earthquakes still have their houses standing.

Why is it always whataboutism with earthquakes when presented with "don't build houses out of matchsticks"?

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