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Why Canada Should Join the EU

economist.com

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Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#301

Post by youngNed »

screye wrote: post #261
BJones12 wrote: post #8

> Europeans could learn from Canada how to allow immigration in a fashion that the population embraces rather than tolerates Clearly the author is ignorant. Canadians are sick of immigration. Young Canadians doubly so. Racism is becoming more acceptable by the day.

Canada has some of the most easily abused immigration systems in the world. Back home in India, it's considered a joke, with entire movies made on that premise. It has led to mass migration of a slice of India's low-skill-low-virtue underclass. This subgroup provides little economic value, brings down wages & slots into existing criminal gangs in Canada. If this wasn't bad enough, Canada has the 1st world's most regr…

Tell me more about this Indian 'subgroup', this 'low-skill-low-virtue underclass' that's built into your very fabric of society, ingrained in religion, that you don't like.

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#303

Post by aprilthird2021 »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #269
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't really let "poor" immigrants into Canada. The system here attempts to cherry-pick in people based on a whole points system, with "I have money to buy a house" and "I have a $$ profession" being being points contributors. We actually have the opposite problem, to some degree. Acquiring more skilled talent from abroad has depressed skilled labour compensation here. And acquiring people from abroad with $$ to i…

Curious how others on this thread experience this. It’s different from anti immigration sentiment in EU & USA then?

I have a BIL who immigrated to Canada and most of my family immigrated to the US.

In the US most immigration sentiment is around illegal immigrants and fear of crime. In Canada, up until COVID there was basically no ill sentiment towards immigrants because no illegal immigrants and not really much immigrant crime.

COVID flipped the job markets and economy, so people turned their eyes to skilled immigrants. Most Americans are frankly not that skilled as workers, have lower educational attainment than Canadians, it's a more rural, spread out population, etc. Plus the illegal immigration is still a bigger gripe, so they never turned as much on skilled immigrants during the downfall. Canada turned sharply and many who moved there and followed all the rules feel the anger of the population towards them is way higher than they expected (or feel they deserve).

A lot of people claim the immigrants don't want to integrate, but it's largely untrue. These are usually some of the most Westernized out of their peer groups from India already, to even consider immigrating to Canada / US. They also tend to be wealthier to afford the tuition to do so. That makes people happy when the economy is good, but it sucks when jobs are scarce.

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#304

Post by FredPret »

threeseed wrote: post #209
ipaddr wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inheritance goes to young people in the same family. I doubt that is holding back the young people who get it. Immigration keeps salaries low which is great for companies bad for young people. Immigrants of a similar age want the same type of housing. Young people starting out cannot afford their parents home. They compete for the same resources. Older generations are least affected.

a) Inheritance is a problem because instead of property going back onto the market it is instead like you say kept inside families and typically used as investment properties. b) Immigration isn't keeping salaries low. Companies are. Because they have eliminated unionisation and so workers have no means to demand for higher wages. And with so much remote talent companies always have a backup plan in case there is a s…

> c) ...

It's crazy to me how many old people who self-identify as conservatives / capitalists have no qualms about using their political pull to get government muscle to kill competition in real estate using the building permitting process. Free markets mean free markets. Charlie Munger was right: it's all about incentives.

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#305

Post by dragon-hn »

femiagbabiaka wrote: post #195
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And most of it misplaced. I've seen that tactic to try to discredit real, valid concerns with immigration, either by lumping it with racism (which definitely exists, but is not the only argument against unfettered immigration), or by pretending something else is the problem (something else may also be a problem, but that doesn't make the problems that people are worried about with high levels of immigration invalid…

> People feeling likes many immigrant communities are creating enclaves instead of adopting the culture of Canada. Every immigrant community creates enclaves. Quebec is an enclave the size of a province. > Many recent immigrants are unskilled, resulting in a larger burden on provincial-based social services. I can find NO evidence for this whatsoever, do you have any?

It is important to differentiate between immigrants vs temporary workers and foreign students. What Canadians seem to have issue with is the latter, which is being abused by Canadian companies.

The anger should be aimed at the rich in Canada abusing the system, as well as the paid for politicians enabling the abuse. It shouldn’t be aimed at the newcomers.

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#306

Post by wvenable »

titanomachy wrote: post #175
BJones12 wrote: post #8

> Europeans could learn from Canada how to allow immigration in a fashion that the population embraces rather than tolerates Clearly the author is ignorant. Canadians are sick of immigration. Young Canadians doubly so. Racism is becoming more acceptable by the day.

You're right. I don't live in Canada anymore, but even my moderate and liberal friends in Canada regularly complain about immigrants. That sentiment feels very new to me, though. I think Canada did have a positive view of immigrants for a long time.

In Canada, one cannot lump all immigrants together even those from the same part of the world. Canada used to be pretty strict on immigration only allowing highly skilled individuals from all over the world. But in the last decade this has changed to just importing as many bodies as possible. I won't go into the reasons for this change but it has dramatically altered the character of the country in this time.

We have essentially imported an entire massive underclass to run all our fast food restaurants and other such jobs.

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#307

Post by buzzert »

titanomachy wrote: post #253
lucb1e wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What of this is not true for the rest of the country then? I haven't visited at all but what the comment above you mentioned (basically the woes of limited social mobility, bad employment terms including tying healthcare to it if you're not rich, insane incarceration, etc.) is the kind of stats and stories I'm familiar with. The country does some things well also, as the commenter above also said, but it's not a plac…

> I haven't visited at all > it's not a place [I] would recommend most people to live Your recommendation (or lack thereof) carries little weight, then. But to actually answer your question, there are many places in the US (urban, suburban, and rural) where fear of violent crime is not a major factor in the day-to-day life of most people. I don't know anyone who has been a victim of violent crime, and it does not fea…

Right, exactly! I personally felt much less safe in Paris than anywhere in the US (including Chicago and Oakland), which is not to say "I'm right and you're wrong", it's just entirely subjective and often the result of having not traveled extensively enough or lack of understanding.

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#308

Post by input_sh »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #67
alephnerd wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> only open to countries on the European continent Cyprus would like to have a word. As well as potentially Armenia, Georgia, and Azerbaijan.

Re: Cyprus, the rule may be being on the same tectonic plate, which AFAICT, Cyprus is (the Eurasian plate).

There aren't any rules.

Or to be a bit more precise, the rule says any "European state" can join, but there are no set-in-stone definitions of what that actually means.

People here are mentioning Morocco as the example of a country rejected for not being European, but that's not quite accurate: Morocco got rejected from the European Communities in 1987, six years the Maastricht Treaty officially established the EU. Maastricht Treaty specifically put the European Commission in charge of figuring out which countries are considered to be "European", but as far as I know, they never said no to anyone. They did say yes to Cyprus, Georgia and Armenia.

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#309

Post by defrost »

FredPret wrote: post #297
dr_dshiv wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hypothesis: Old people blow it on cruises and young people have families and start businesses.

If true, it would explain the massive post-covid revenue bumps at Carnival Cruise Lines and Royal Caribbean. These guys are making double their pre-covid revenue, and 2019 was a really great year. They're heading to almost 3x their revenue before that: https://valustox.com/RCL

Trump boosting the economy again?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2024/11/11/vil...

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#310

Post by aprilthird2021 »

tsimionescu wrote: post #6

> Canada’s inclusive treatment of its indigenous peoples, at least in recent decades, could be emulated by Europeans (though First Nations Canadians might fairly object to closer ties with ex-colonists) I really wonder what the author meant with this line. There's very few populations in Europe that bear any similarity whatsoever with the relationship between First Nations people and most Canadians, since most popula…

Lots of Europe has ethnic strife and tensions. Bosnian / Serbian. Czech / Slovak (until recently). Spain has its breakaway ethnic movements. Ireland like others mentioned is a close analogue.
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