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Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

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Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#301

Post by pyuser583 »

mr_toad wrote: post #258
Hilift wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read Wikipedia, there was the Massacre of the "Latins" in Constantinople in 1182. That almost certainly made it easy to make it a revenge play for the Venetians and associates. What I find most interesting is the Romans were unbeatable in battle, even the Byzantines. However, maintaining a large military presence was expensive and politically difficult to manage. So they used annual mercenaries from the north…

By 1200 the Romans had been beaten in battle many times. Their loss at Manzikert to the Turks in 1071 severely weakened the empire, and they never really recovered from it.

It's funny how the Battle of Manzikert went from being an obscure battle only a handful of scholars cared about to a major topic in popular consciousness.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#302

Post by pyuser583 »

JackFr wrote: post #103
kibwen wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even today plenty of Christian sects refuse to recognize the council of Nicaea's interpretation of the trinity, including the Mormons and the Jehovah's witnesses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontrinitarianism (Whether or not any of these flirt with polytheism is up for debate.) Meanwhile, the Catholic church's own profusion of saints whom you are supposed to beseech for specific blessings is dangerously close to a…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filioque - to this day the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church disagree on whether the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father, or from the Father and the Son.

Basically the Vim v Emacs of it's day.

One side is obviously right, the other just doesn't want to admit it ;)

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#303

Post by pyuser583 »

throw0101b wrote: post #129
kibwen wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even today plenty of Christian sects refuse to recognize the council of Nicaea's interpretation of the trinity, including the Mormons and the Jehovah's witnesses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontrinitarianism (Whether or not any of these flirt with polytheism is up for debate.) Meanwhile, the Catholic church's own profusion of saints whom you are supposed to beseech for specific blessings is dangerously close to a…

> Even today plenty of Christian sects refuse to recognize the council of Nicaea's interpretation of the trinity, including the Mormons and the Jehovah's witnesses In some ways the (English) word "God" has become 'overloaded' over time: * https://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2015/12/christians-muslims-... And that's not even getting into "god": * https://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2011/04/further-thought-on-...

I mean Zeus/Deus is a thousand times more overloaded.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#304

Post by throaway2501 »

noworriesnate wrote: post #108
throaway2501 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel doesn’t allow Messianic Jews to be citizens for this reason.

So I'm confused--are you saying that Israel thinks Messianic Jews are not Jews because they abandoned their faith or something like that, OR are you saying that Israel doesn't let Messianic Jews to be citizens because sometimes non-Jews convert to become Messianic Jews?

Israel basically sees them as evangelizing Christians in disguise. They don’t consider them Jewish because they both proselytize and worship Christ as the Messiah. Both of those things are offensive to the traditional tenets of Judaism.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#305

Post by dpig_ »

NemoNobody wrote: post #252
graemep wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would interpret that as all of redeemed humanity, not just all Christians.

Your interpretation is correct - every single one of us was redeemed at the Cross. Essentially, Jesus came here to correct a kind of mistake. God laid down laws and then people laid down further laws and eventually all the people, even those living by the law, were guilty of having committed sin - breaking the established laws of God and that crime meant their souls would be claimed by Satan, as being people "of the…

Religion as banal courtroom drama.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#306

Post by rkuykendall-com »

sporc wrote: post #209
bjackman wrote: post #28

I find it pretty cool how the spread of Christianity can be tracked so finely that a 50 update in earliest arrival time is exciting! I started listening to a podcast called "the history of the early church" to learn a bit more about that but unfortunately I think the target audience was Christians interested in theology rather than nerds interested in history. Recommendations for books etc are welcome!

A lecture series by The Teaching Company called "The New Testament" taught by Bart Ehrman is an enjoyable academic introduction to the history of Early Christianity. I also recommend another lecture series called "From Jesus to Christianity" by The Modern Scholar taught by Thomas F. Madden.

I know it's been a long time, but alongside the horsemen of atheism and reading the actual bible, The Teaching Company is where I got so much of my education.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#307

Post by iamthejuan »

bjackman wrote: post #28

I find it pretty cool how the spread of Christianity can be tracked so finely that a 50 update in earliest arrival time is exciting! I started listening to a podcast called "the history of the early church" to learn a bit more about that but unfortunately I think the target audience was Christians interested in theology rather than nerds interested in history. Recommendations for books etc are welcome!

Try The great controversy between Christ and satan.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#308

Post by alsetmusic »

NemoNobody wrote: post #256
alsetmusic wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been reading a lot about the early church for about a year and really enjoying it. I'm an atheist but I'm also a history nerd so it's been truly fascinating. Here are some that I've enjoyed: - The Origin of Satan by Elaine Pagels; I read this one so casually that I don't have a good summary due to poor memory. - The Passover Plot by Hugh J Schonfield; author contends that Jesus believed that he was the prophesie…

That's exactly what Jesus did and every prophet that has been before him also. Each prophet sows the seeds for the next within their teachings - each prophet knows how their teachings will become perverted over time, each knows the end of the end of their religion before they start it but they start it anyways bc of the seeds - they can't unseen the fruits borne of them, to them it's plain how people areiving incorre…

> That's exactly what Jesus did and every prophet that has been before him also.

I don't think Jesus thought of himself as a prophet. I think he believed he was the Messiah.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#309

Post by jim-jim-jim »

jim-jim-jim wrote: post #243
xdennis wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an Atheist (formally Orthodox), I think I can adjudicate this. The problem with the First Council of Nicaea was that it was decided wrong. The whole "there are three gods, but only one god" is inherently confusing. There's a reason why Arianism keeps recurring over and over again. All the new nations who have been introduced to this aspect of Christianity find it bizarre. If the decision would have been more along…

> There's a reason why Arianism keeps recurring over and over again. I don't have the numbers on hand, but I recently read that a remarkable number of US Evangelicals regard each member of the Trinity as an autonomous entity. This might invite you to scoff at sola scriptura, but I can't imagine the numbers being better for other denominations. It's a strange thought: how many, maybe most devotees are actually heretic…

btw I rewatched Black Robe and it does not really deal with this theme. Still a great movie though.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#310

Post by rgrieselhuber »

xdennis wrote: post #170
kibwen wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even today plenty of Christian sects refuse to recognize the council of Nicaea's interpretation of the trinity, including the Mormons and the Jehovah's witnesses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontrinitarianism (Whether or not any of these flirt with polytheism is up for debate.) Meanwhile, the Catholic church's own profusion of saints whom you are supposed to beseech for specific blessings is dangerously close to a…

As an Atheist (formally Orthodox), I think I can adjudicate this. The problem with the First Council of Nicaea was that it was decided wrong. The whole "there are three gods, but only one god" is inherently confusing. There's a reason why Arianism keeps recurring over and over again. All the new nations who have been introduced to this aspect of Christianity find it bizarre. If the decision would have been more along…

This is just the same one vs the many dialectic that always leads to self-refuting positions over time. Orthodoxy is the only faith to resolve this problem.
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