folks, this is why I lean on skepticism in regards to “off label” usage (ie, weight loss). Have only lived a few decades on this planet and the weight loss trends with pharmaceuticals is wild.
Weight loss is not "off label" for this drug.
Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells
301–310 of 461 posts
Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells
#302I'm always so baffled by warnings about losing muscle when losing weight. Of course you do! If your body is tens of pounds lighter, then you don't need the extra muscle to lug it around. This paper is about reduction in heart muscle, and of course your heart doesn't need to be as strong because there's less blood to pump and less tissue to fuel. When you gain weight, you also increase the muscles needed to carry that…
From the article: "...explains this rate of muscle decline is significantly higher than what is typically observed with calorie-reduced diets or normal aging and could lead to a host of long-term health issues..." The warning isn't that you're losing muscle during weight-loss with these drugs. It's that the ratio of muscle vs fat loss is much greater with the drugs compared to traditional weight loss methods. It's be…
Even amongst traditional calorie deficits, rapid weight loss results in greater loss of muscle mass when compared to gradual weight loss, even if you lose the same amount of mass overall. I.e. you keep more muscle losing 0.5 lbs a week over 40 weeks than 2 lbs a week over 10 weeks.
Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells
#303I'm always so baffled by warnings about losing muscle when losing weight. Of course you do! If your body is tens of pounds lighter, then you don't need the extra muscle to lug it around. This paper is about reduction in heart muscle, and of course your heart doesn't need to be as strong because there's less blood to pump and less tissue to fuel. When you gain weight, you also increase the muscles needed to carry that…
From the article: "...explains this rate of muscle decline is significantly higher than what is typically observed with calorie-reduced diets or normal aging and could lead to a host of long-term health issues..." The warning isn't that you're losing muscle during weight-loss with these drugs. It's that the ratio of muscle vs fat loss is much greater with the drugs compared to traditional weight loss methods. It's be…
>>>Losing a lot of lean mass is incredibly detrimental to your longevity and quality of life.
While true, its also true that if you manage to lose substantial fat in the process, it leads to longer and better quality life
Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells
#304I used Ozempic for couple months. I lost 25kg over 6 months (120kg -> 95kg).
I gained muscle, as I started weightlifting (modified 5x5 program 3-4 times a week) and was supplementing with protein isolate (about 50g a day).
My subjective feeling is that even if "Ozempic makes you lose muscle faster than the same caloric deficit without it" is true, this effect is very small.
Vast majority of muscle loss comes from no resistance exercise, low protein, much faster weight loss than possible "naturally".
Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells
#305Earlier quoted context omitted.
See the actual research article: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2452302X2... This study on mice was suggested by a previous publication: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/landia/article/PIIS2213-8... where it had been noticed that in humans "the muscle loss with these medications (as indicated by decreases in fat-free mass [FFM]) ranges from 25% to 39% of the total weight lost over 36–72 weeks",…
> Studies suggest muscle loss with these medications (as indicated by decreases in fat-free mass [FFM]) ranges from 25% to 39% of the total weight lost over 36–72 weeks. This substantial muscle loss can be largely attributed to the magnitude of weight loss, rather than by an independent effect of GLP-1 receptor agonists , although this hypothesis must be tested. By comparison, non-pharmacological caloric restriction…
The part highlighted by you was just an optimistic supposition made at the time when the first article has been published. That supposition only expressed wishful thinking that was not based on any data.
The study on mice published in the second article has been made specifically to test this optimistic supposition and the results have shown that it had been false, i.e. the weight loss caused by semaglutide is different from the weight loss caused only by calorie restriction.
More studies are needed to elucidate whether this effect of semaglutide is really harmful or maybe it can be reversed or avoided by combining the medication with a better diet, e.g. with a higher protein intake.
Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells
#306I'm always so baffled by warnings about losing muscle when losing weight. Of course you do! If your body is tens of pounds lighter, then you don't need the extra muscle to lug it around. This paper is about reduction in heart muscle, and of course your heart doesn't need to be as strong because there's less blood to pump and less tissue to fuel. When you gain weight, you also increase the muscles needed to carry that…
What they need is to design some sort of mouse gym.
MouseLifts 5x5 + RAtkins diet
Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells
#307[flagged]
Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells
#308There are a lot of people here citing loss of muscle mass as a side effect of GLP-1s, when the reality is that weight loss almost always comes with muscle loss. For me, that hasn't even been the case. I'm down 40lbs on a relatively low dose of Semaglutide and my muscle mass has moderately increased over the last 6 months. The hysteria over this is totally unfounded.
I would be more concerned about the thyroid cancer when taking these drugs... https://scholar.google.com/scholar?as_ylo=2024&q=glp+1+thyro...
The two meta-analysis are interesting, I think.
https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/thy.2023.0530
> Overall there is no conclusive evidence of elevated thyroid cancer risk.
https://dom-pubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/do...
> Our meta-analysis showed that GLP-1RA treatment could be associated with a moderate increase in relative risk for thyroid cancer in clinical trials, with a small increase in absolute risk. Studies of longer duration are required to assess the clinical implications of this finding.
It's potentially a possibility, but the absolute risk seems to still be quite low.
Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells
#309I'm always so baffled by warnings about losing muscle when losing weight. Of course you do! If your body is tens of pounds lighter, then you don't need the extra muscle to lug it around. This paper is about reduction in heart muscle, and of course your heart doesn't need to be as strong because there's less blood to pump and less tissue to fuel. When you gain weight, you also increase the muscles needed to carry that…
I'm always so baffled by people commenting without reading the article first.
Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells
#310Earlier quoted context omitted.
Diet and exercise. It always comes back to that, yet people avoid it like the plague. The modern weight loss program you described is pushed because that's what people want; an extremely low-effort methodology that yields extremely high results. The idea that their is some silver bullet to weight loss has dominated the US health market for ages now because selling someone a pill that they don't have to do anything bu…
> The modern weight loss program you described is pushed because that's what people want; an extremely low-effort methodology that yields extremely high results. I think it's a mistake to think of it as what people want. It's what people can do. We have to acknowledge a fundamental struggle that we have with dieting and working out. Pretending it's just hard, when statistics show what is true at a societal level, wil…
I still disagree. Simplicity and convenience is what people not only want, but demand. And this extends beyond weight loss solutions to our modern world of ever-converging technologies creating ever-complex systems under the guise of efficiency. Multiple cultures have supported these values since the times of snake-oil salesmen, which did not exactly vanish with history, as we so often forget. Look at products like Optavia, Xenedrine, etc.
It keeps happening because the market wills it to, but not without good reason. It is perfectly rational to want something to be easy, especially now as our modern lives are inundated with a tremendous amount of stressors and tasks we must constantly attend to. So yes, we wish for convenience, but it is not the solution we always need.