Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

news.mit.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 487 posts

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#301

Post by throwaway2037 »

nuancebydefault wrote: post #100
shafyy wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where the OP lives. But in Switzerland, where world-class univeristies like the ETH cost something like $ 1.5k a year in tuition, I'm pretty certain that people earn more on average than in the USA.

I live in Belgium, we earn quite a lot less on average indeed. However why would we need so much money? We can go to hospital, or even 20 times visit a dentist for that matter, without expensive insurance and without the fear of bankruptcy. We can have kids without fear of not being able to pay kintergarten.

    > We can have kids without fear of not being able to pay kindergarten.
FYI: Public kindergarten is 100% paid for by gov't across the US. I don't think any public schools in the US have tuition. (That said, there is no magical money. It is paid for by local taxes.) Where did you hear about this myth?

Also: In Belgium, can you really go to the dentist 20 times? Is there any good reason to allow this in a public healthcare system? If the barrier to entry for healthcare services is very low, then there must be (1) a lot of abuse... or (2) long waiting times... or (3) very high taxes. My guess in Belgium: A combination of (2) and (3).

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#303

Post by throwaway2037 »

currymj wrote: post #107
nuancebydefault wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are such things in the US so complicated? Where I live, studying is much much cheaper for most professions,for everyone! That's the only fair way. Also, a set of well educated people pays itself back later in the form of mostly income and added value taxes, which provides money to keep studying for cheap for the next generation.

the ideal is that college should be very expensive for rich people and cheap, free, or at least more affordable, for less wealthy people. american universities get closer to this ideal than you might expect. the days of outrageous student debt are thankfully fading away, at least for undergraduate degrees. it would make more sense to do this redistribution through taxes if possible, but many US institutions are priva…

    > the ideal is that college should be very expensive for rich people and cheap, free, or at least more affordable, for less wealthy people.
This is an excellent summary of the Harvard University tuition strategy for the last 20 years.

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#304

Post by s1artibartfast »

ndriscoll wrote: post #186
s1artibartfast wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with that. I dont see how that is MIT's problem.

It's not their problem, but they're setting the absurd price, so it's not the parents screwing over the kids somehow. The price being so outrageously high does also call into question whether their charitable endowments could reasonably be characterized as part of a tax avoidance scam.

>The price being so outrageously high does also call into question whether their charitable endowments could reasonably be characterized as part of a tax avoidance scam.

I dont see how that follows at all. They spend more on students than they receive in tuition funds. Who would they be scamming? What if they offered a million dollar education? I still dont see how that would impact their non-profit status.

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#305

Post by thaumasiotes »

corimaith wrote: post #269
sunshowers wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Education in the US isn't cheap but those are elite colleges. The price tag is mostly for the networking.

Funnily enough, if you think about for networking you'd much rather be surrounded by kids who can afford that 200k price tag upfront.

That depends who you are. You want to be surrounded by kids who have assets you don't. If you're there on an academic scholarship, you want rich contacts. If you're there on family prestige, you want capable contacts.

If you're there on a need-based scholarship, you need both kinds, but neither of them need you.

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#306

Post by throwaway2037 »

awb wrote: post #201
TheJoeMan wrote: post #32

This is a great step in the right direction. I can't speak directly for MIT, but there are issues with how these programs don't apply to parents with small family businesses. My parents had a small business, with my father taking home a salary of $XX,XXX. Duke University used the business assets to determine the EFC (expected family contribution) of literally 90% of the salary. Essentially saying to sell off the fami…

On the flip side, it’s possible to sell a business for 7+ figures and then have little to no income in subsequent years in which case quite wealthy families would qualify for assistance.

I find it hard to believe that total liquid assets would not be considered during the financial aid application process.

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#307

Post by s1artibartfast »

snowwrestler wrote: post #299
s1artibartfast wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IF I have stock and make $XX,XXX in dividends, how is that different? IF I have own apartments and make $XX,XXX in rent, how is that different? I think the idea is that Yes, the expectation is for people to make actual sacrifice before they qualify.

It would be similar if your stock dividends were your sole irreplaceable means of support. So, you sell your stock and give the money to MIT. Now you can’t buy more stock, and therefore have no future income. Permanently ending your career to send your kid to college is an unreasonable sacrifice, in my book.

I wouldn't want to make that sacrifice either, but I also understand that im not entitled to tuition assistance as some sort of human right

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#308

Post by throwaway2037 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #216
s1artibartfast wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good question. I wonder if labor competition in Europe is less reliant on University names and reputation? IT could also have to do with cultural difference is what students look for in a university. My understanding is that most universities in Europe look more like US bare bones commuter schools, opposed to an all inclusive recreational experience. The top ranked university in Europe is Oxford, which educates more…

MIT is a huge outlier in terms of R&D and the population it selects students from, it would be more fair to compare Oxford to Harvard. Oxford...really is about as far from commuter schools than you can get, for example having to wear robes to the dining hall...that is straight out of Harry Potter (and indeed, where they filmed the dining scene at one of the colleges).

    > MIT is a huge outlier in terms of R&D
I think most R&D at MIT is paid for by gov't science research grants.

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#309

Post by [deleted] »

technothrasher wrote: post #143
jjeaff wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can understand why they might do this. Many people who own a small business underpay themselves significantly and use the extra funds on the business to build up assets. This defers taxes and allows the funds to be reinvested without tax. They might even take out loans on those business assets. The same way the wealthy will pay themselves a tiny salary and just live off the asset value of their stock. Someone who o…

As an owner of a small family business, I have to pay close attention to making sure my salary and that of my other family members involved is "generally commensurate with our duties" or the IRS will be up my backside pretty quick. I obviously try to minimize it as much as possible, but if you drop it to something insignificant and the IRS notices, they'll adjust your income and expenses reported to reflect your non-…

[deleted]

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#310

Post by s1artibartfast »

shiroiushi wrote: post #208
s1artibartfast wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good question. I wonder if labor competition in Europe is less reliant on University names and reputation? IT could also have to do with cultural difference is what students look for in a university. My understanding is that most universities in Europe look more like US bare bones commuter schools, opposed to an all inclusive recreational experience. The top ranked university in Europe is Oxford, which educates more…

>The top ranked university in Europe is Oxford, which educates more than twice as many students as MIT with half the budget. I doubt this is because Oxford is cutting corners on educational curriculum. Maybe, maybe not. It could just be from cost-of-living differences: salaries for many jobs (particularly highly-educated ones) pay a fraction outside the US what they do inside the US. How much are Oxford professors an…

Im not sure what you mean by maybe not. If oxford is cutting corners, it still has the top rank in Europe, so I suppose they are the correct corners to cut.

Perhaps high professor and admin salaries in the US are a problem with US education.

Post reply on HN