Earlier quoted context omitted.
and until recently, the only browser that allows to split the view into independent sub-windows..
wait how'd you do this
It's in the right click menu, or there's a key command for it.
Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)
301–310 of 316 posts
Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is plain bad faith. If you know anything about web standards, you already know the W3C process requires candidate implementations and interoperability before a standard reaches its later stages. Other browsers implemented the standards earlier because they participated in that process; calling those implementations "non-standard chrome/etc features" is absurd.
Later stages? These features often get implemented at the working draft stage - a stage where major changes can still happen, it has no consensus or even wide review. Google implementing a draft they themselves authored with minimal review doesn't make it standard just because w3c publishes the draft.
When chrome/firefox/opera all implement a working draft and demonstrate interoperability, they are participating in the standards process. Trying to make it sound like they're doing something non-standard when they do that is simply dishonest.
Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
It *is* misleading because Apple saying that Safari supports a feature doesn't actually mean that the feature in question actually works. Rather than go through every single point (because I don't have all day), I'll just pick one: > IndexedDB API > W3C recommended standard in 2015. Supported in Safari in 2014. No. It didn't work in 2014, it wasn't working until 2016. (see: https://gist.github.com/nolanlawson/08eb857…
> So you could spend 6 months working on a project, release your product, then get inundated with bad reviews because it didn't work for half the population with iPhones. You spent 6 months developing against an unstandardised technology on a platform with well documented compatibility complexities, and you didn’t test it on one of your larger target devices? I think that’s on you, friend.
You'd think so.
And so you'd purchase a new iOS device for ~$1000 and test against it.
Then you realise that you're getting bugs from some customers that you literally cannot replicate on your device.
Then you realise that the bugs are type of device independent, so you need to purchase one of every kind of device apple offers for ~$10,000 and test against those.
Then you realise that the bugs aren't just type of device independent, they're actually dependent on a combination of OS version AND type of device.
So you spend another ~$10,000 for a second copy of each device, and set them up to never auto update.
But now you need to wait 12 months for the next iOS update so you can test the current and the previous version, but waiting 12 months won't do.
So you want to rollback iOS versions, but Apple doesn't let you do that.
But they do let you simulate combinations of iOS devices and versions through xcode. So you buy a macOS device and you're out another $5,000 and spend time simulating, but then you realise that the simulations don't actually replicate the device bugs, they're just running sandboxed versions of desktop Safari on the host machine that are scaled down and streamed into the simulated device. And so we've learnt a $5000 lesson on the difference between simulation and emulation.
So here you are, out ~$25,000 and dealing with customer complaints and troubleshooting, the you find something unexpected... You find a customer with a combination of type of device and OS version that you have, and you can't replicate the issue.
So it's not just type of device plus OS version dependent bugs. The bugs are independent to the devices themselves. Yes, really!
So what do you do at that point?
You have no way to reliably test if a feature works, the only thing you can do is take Apple at their word and recommend to customers that they can still access your product through other platforms (Android, macOS, Windows) and just put up with the angry complaints and reviews from iPhone customers that you can't help.
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The above comes from personal hands-on experience.
We have purchased multiple of the same device on the same day from the same shop with the same OS on factory settings and have witnessed different behaviours.
Reporting issues to Apple is useless, their responses are absent at best, and hostile at worst.
Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)
#304[dead]
Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)
#305Earlier quoted context omitted.
Orion is WebKit. Safari’s rendering engine is WebKit.
I know it’s WebKit. But they are somehow allowing extensions, which none of the other iOS browsers has managed afaik.
Likely just emulating/providing the javascript interfaces needed for FF and Chrome extensions to run.
Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)
#306No not even close by every single possible measure. I was there, I suffered through it, Google would have to make TONS of hostile moves for that fact to change. I have no interest in the arguments of a closed source subscription service that wants me to switch to the bundled browser of the wealthiest company on earth's most popular consumer OS, lecturing me about using the 4th wealthiest company on earth's browser th…
Just because Chrome implements a feature and then rams it through a W3C committee does not make it a “standard” that Apple must support on day 1. The arrogance of the Chrome crowd is astonishing.
Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is GeckoView on Android: https://mozilla.github.io/geckoview/ On desktop, it used to be available as an ActiveX component and a GTK widget, at least: https://www-archive.mozilla.org/projects/embedding/embedding... Wine still uses WineGecko as a replacement for IE engine – might also be worth looking into.
> There is GeckoView on Android: https://mozilla.github.io/geckoview/ But sadly on Android the alternative is simply using a Chrome/Blink-powered webview, which is capable enough for most people and importantly comes at a zero APK size hit. So you need to have pretty special needs before including a complete custom browser engine inside your app becomes an attractive proposition. (Whereas on Windows for example for a…
Hmm, you’re right, I think GeckoView is “marketed” specifically for making browsers:
> However, Android’s WebView is not really intended for building browsers, and hence, many advanced Web APIs are disabled. Furthermore, it is also a moving target: different phones might have different versions of WebView, all of which your app has to support.
It might still be an okay choice for an application shell sometimes (e.g. if you use a web API that is not supported by WebView and no polyfill is readily available for Cordova/Capacitor).
Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
Except you can't. Every browser on iOS uses Safari's rendering engine. Chrome/Firefox on iOS are effectively reskinned Safari. This is an apple requirement. The rendering engine being the important part here when talking about standards and such.
The only browser that seems to be able to get around this is Orion. No idea how they are doing it.
When there is will, there is way!
Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)
#309Earlier quoted context omitted.
iOS is important in all rich countries, and if you want to address wealthy people in developing markets. It is very important for these reasons.
In Europe Safari has decent 21%. Thus I would not neglect Apples web browser but calling it very important is going a step to far in my opinion.
One in five is not enough to be very important? I disagree.
Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)
#310Yes. If it works on Chrome, no one cares or even tests for other things. If there is a JS feature in Chrome they want to use, so it’s impossible to use other browsers (instead of looking wrong) people do it. Performs fine in Chrome? Ship it. Yes, Chrome is the new IE in that it’s the only browsers companies care about, just like IE was for a very long time. Everything has to be Chrome compatible to succeed. That’s th…
I manage websites for a couple of non-profits. A very high percentage of traffic is from Safari (mostly on iOS) -- 40% on one site. Only testing in Chrome seems like a bad idea.
people with money tend to use Safari