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Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

marinecorpstimes.com

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Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#301

Post by sofixa »

victorbjorklund wrote: post #263
acyou wrote: post #228

If you're familiar with USA military history, the Americans are (were) famous for not doing things by the book for the right reasons, and letting common sense prevail, as well as incentivizing good outcomes. “A serious problem in planning against American doctrine is that the Americans do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligation to follow their doctrine.” “The reason that the American Navy does so well…

US pilots havent really been engaged in a war against a peer since ww2. It might be true. But we probably shouldnt extrapolate from bombing terrorists in the desert to actually fighting against say China.

> US pilots havent really been engaged in a war against a peer since ww2

Maybe Korea, where there were Chinese and Russian-trained and sourced jets?

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#302

Post by ExoticPearTree »

mmooss wrote: post #171
some_random wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hating the F-35 in general has been a thing for the Anti-American crowd, mainly driven by western peaceniks who don't see a point in military might (largely depleted now) and the pro-Russia/China/etc crowd who need it to be shit so their fighters can seem competent. As is usual the latter "inform" the former.

> Hating the F-35 in general has been a thing for the Anti-American crowd mainly driven by western peaceniks I hadn't noticed that at all. Could you give some examples? What I've seen is budget hawks on all sides, meme-following mobs, competing defense contractors, and anyone politician looking for an easy target of 'corruption', etc. There are legitimate criticisms, including of the one-design-for-all concept, which…

I personally don't like the F35 because I think it looks ugly. And I don't trust ugly planes.

On the other hand, it they would have made it look as sleek and beautiful as the F22...

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#303

Post by crossroadsguy »

konschubert wrote: post #298
Timshel wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And as a bit of context it's mentionned at the end that: >It was the Marines’ third aviation crash in six weeks, following the August crash of an F/A-18D Hornet in southern California, which killed its pilot, and an MV-22 Osprey crash in Australia that killed three Marines.

But I don’t think THIS dude flew all these planes?

You mean, could he be from among the three plus one who died in previous crashes? Seriously doubt it.

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#304

Post by cdot2 »

victorbjorklund wrote: post #263
acyou wrote: post #228

If you're familiar with USA military history, the Americans are (were) famous for not doing things by the book for the right reasons, and letting common sense prevail, as well as incentivizing good outcomes. “A serious problem in planning against American doctrine is that the Americans do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligation to follow their doctrine.” “The reason that the American Navy does so well…

US pilots havent really been engaged in a war against a peer since ww2. It might be true. But we probably shouldnt extrapolate from bombing terrorists in the desert to actually fighting against say China.

The US air force fought significant enemy air forces in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and in the Balkans. Their doctrine has not remained untested since 1945.

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#305

Post by lupusreal »

the5avage wrote: post #251

> The investigation report said the F-35′s transponder failed as a result of the electrical malfunction So there is serious electrical malfunction and the pilot loses communication and also some of his displays multiple times. In hindsight we know it wasn't that serious and the plane could have kept flying. But how can the pilot figure that out, while flying the aircraft? One needs to evaluate decisions based on the…

If a ship's captain is asleep, as he logically must be some of the time, and the officers on watch crash the ship into a reef, that captain's career is over even though by normal civilian standards it might be surmised that he did nothing wrong. Even if he's got the receipts to prove he trained his men properly according to the book and they passed all their tests. Civilian intuition about blame doesn't really apply.

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#306

Post by ExoticPearTree »

dotancohen wrote: post #299
ExoticPearTree wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until you get to actually fly it for real, you read the manuals a few times over, do countless hours in the simulator and so on. Those 50 hours can be misleading as to his experience with the aircraft.

A stimulator comfortably positioned at FL000 is much more amenable to troubleshooting multiple electrical failures than a tin can balancing on computer-controlled thrust differentiating, 1900 feet in the air well below stall speed.

You are missing the point. Incidents do happen, but you just don't get to fly a fighter jet until you proved in a simulator that you are capable of flying it and troubleshooting it. What the simulator does is to see if you can be entrusted with the aircraft.

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#307

Post by close04 »

stavros wrote: post #278
GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The jet was fine, it kept flying for 64 miles. He probably ejected because there had been a recent osprey crash with causalities and he was scared.

"The jet kept flying for 64 miles" and "the jet was fine" are WILDLY different things.

"The jet was not 100% fine" and "the jet was 100% unflyable" are WILDLY different things.

The question to ask in this case is "would the pilot's presence in the cockpit have made a difference to the possible outcome?".

In my reading of the article the jet could be controlled, and the pilot had access to the backup displays and communication systems. The plane flying such a long distance means the pilot reacted poorly under pressure and did the bare minimum as per the unclear procedures, before catering to his own safety. While not wrong according to the unclear procedure, you want more from someone commanding a squadron.

The pilot could have stayed put at the very least to attempt to mitigate the impact (pun intended) of the eventual crash, if not to actually land the plane using the backup instruments before ejecting to safety. That plane crash could have easily been a tragedy.

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#308

Post by db48x »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #291
db48x wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was doing an instrument landing at the time. When the ILS switched off, he automatically aborted the landing as trained. This is a go–around, so you apply TOGA thrust, point the nose up, level the wings, raise the gear, and climb to 4000’ or whatever is the correct altitude for the TOGA procedure at the airport you are at. He was already 1200’ above the ground and climbing when he ejected. He was in a perfect leve…

> He was doing an instrument landing at the time. When the ILS switched off, he automatically aborted the landing as trained. No, if you read the report, he was on final and, for whatever reason, instead of continuing the landing procedure he decided to change the aircraft mode to vertical landing and this caused the helmet to glitch.

The redacted version of the report does not state that there was any causal link between switching to SVTOL and the failure of the HMD. Only that the HMD happened to fail shortly after he switched modes:

    95. Approaching the final approach fix, the MFL made the radio call
    to convert the flight to Mode 4 (STOVL) and slow the flight to 150
    knots in preparation for the 100-knot slow landing. This was the last
    radio call Swede 12 heard from Swede 11. [Encl (17), (19)]

    98. MP reported his HMD flickered shortly after converting. Near
    simultaneously, a momentary caution displayed in his HMD that he
    perceived to be engine-related and then the HMD flickered out. While
    MP considered missed approach options, the HMD came back. [Encl (17)]
And from the evaluation:

    19. Primary factors contributing to the mishap can be traced back to
                    event that occurred at 13:32:05. This event induced
    failures of both primary radios,                       the TACAN, and
    the ILS. [FF 100, 101, 126-129]

    20. Additionally, it is probable that the HMD and PCDs were not
    operational for at least three distinct periods. [FF 98, 103, 104,
    106, 114, 132-136, 141]

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#309

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

fragmede wrote: post #271
GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The jet was fine, it kept flying for 64 miles. He probably ejected because there had been a recent osprey crash with causalities and he was scared.

64 miles sounds quite far, and I've gone quite fast on my motorcycle, but the top speed of the F-35B (that they tell us) is 1,200 mph. At that speed that's just over 3 minutes.

3 minutes is an eternity for something like a jet.

If a car drove at highway speed for 3 minutes without crashing after the driver jumped out, you'd be impressed too.

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#310

Post by cwillu »

petre wrote: post #250
acyou wrote: post #228

If you're familiar with USA military history, the Americans are (were) famous for not doing things by the book for the right reasons, and letting common sense prevail, as well as incentivizing good outcomes. “A serious problem in planning against American doctrine is that the Americans do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligation to follow their doctrine.” “The reason that the American Navy does so well…

He did the right thing. He's alive and well, fired from his command instead of deceased like the other servicemen in the OV-22 and FA-18D.

“Better to die than to look bad” is one of the more toxic sayings associated with military aviation.
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