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Ambulance hits cyclist, rushes him to hospital, then sticks him with $1,800 bill

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Re: Ambulance hits cyclist, rushes him to hospital, then sticks him with $1,800 bill

#301

Post by fetzu »

fiala__ wrote: post #247
fetzu wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you think you don’t pay for your healthcare? As an European, I have probably paid upwards of 150k for healthcare and probably got about 10k worth of it (at what might consider unreasonable prices, mind you). Even in countries with universal healthcare, it’s not free. There is always someone footing the bill. EDIT: a word

The point is, in most of Europe it’s the richer folks that foot the bill for the poorer ones. That’s a system based on solidarity - you contribute to our collective ability to treat our sick and injured, according to your financial means. EDIT: at least that’s how it’s supposed to work in theory. Of course the richest people don’t foot the bill for anyone but themselves.

Absolutely, but OP made it sound that he was baffled that people had to pay for an ambulance. But then again maybe there is an European country I don’t know of where ambulances are provided for free by some car company, fueled through the generous donation of an energy company, supplied by a good-hearted medical supplies company and manned and driven by unpaid interns and/or students?

The solidarity system most European countries have is without a doubt superior than the mess that is the US healthcare system, but it sure as fuck isn’t free.

Re: Ambulance hits cyclist, rushes him to hospital, then sticks him with $1,800 bill

#302

Post by fetzu »

oarfish wrote: post #249
fiala__ wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is, in most of Europe it’s the richer folks that foot the bill for the poorer ones. That’s a system based on solidarity - you contribute to our collective ability to treat our sick and injured, according to your financial means. EDIT: at least that’s how it’s supposed to work in theory. Of course the richest people don’t foot the bill for anyone but themselves.

In Germany we have a two-prong system of public and private health insurance, so the richer folks actually remove themselves from the solidarity system, leaving the middle class with good jobs to pay for most of the expenses. Is it similar in other european countries?

The German system is interestingly (but not surprisingly fucked up). In Switzerland there is a mandatory health insurance (which provides for most healthcare needs), but insurances are private companies which charge different prices for the same service (because of course they would), which vary greatly according to which village you live in (because our “states” negotiate the prices with the health providers and then insurances, through a very transparent and understandable system; I am kidding of course, probably the people designing it don’t even understand it fully, citizens and politicians damn sure don’t). Prices have been steadily rising for my whole adult life with no end in sight. There have been some tries to get rid of that in favor of universal healthcare managed by the state, but the people said “no” because they fully understood and weighed the issue (I am kidding, the people defending the current system just bought more ads than the people pushing for change).

But hey, at least getting run over by an ambulance won’t bankrupt you! Silver linings, eh?

Re: Ambulance hits cyclist, rushes him to hospital, then sticks him with $1,800 bill

#303

Post by jart »

freeone3000 wrote: post #290
jart wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying cars are a political choice assumes we live in a command and control society. Saying "we" in this context assumes you have political power.

We do have political power; if you’re in the US, you had the opportunity to exercise it in the last week. Your local elected officials make the plans for roads and bike lanes and zoning and parking lots and variances; and they are usually quite responsive to the voting public.

lol that voting is power. double lol if you think local elected officials plan anything.

Re: Ambulance hits cyclist, rushes him to hospital, then sticks him with $1,800 bill

#305

Post by vv_ »

vv_ wrote: post #284
fy20 wrote: post #169

As a European, the fact that you have to pay for emergency transport in an ambulance is enough internet for today.

In Lithuania, a mandatory health insurance tax of 6.98% is deducted from your monthly salary. For example, if you earn €5,000 per month (chosen as it is close to the average salary in the United States), this amounts to €349 per month or €4,188 per year. Despite this tax, you often have to pay for many services unless you can afford to wait months in line. Consequently, many companies provide their employees with add…

Furthermore, unlike in the United States, we pay a significant amount of taxes. Let's say you earn €5000 per month. From your monthly salary, you'll have deductions of 20% for income tax, 6.98% for mandatory health insurance, and 12.52% for government social insurance, totaling 39.5% in deductions, which leaves you with €3025. Additionally, for almost everything you buy, you'll pay a 21% VAT (Value Added Tax), reducing your effective spending power to €2390 (48% of what you earn!). There are also property taxes, but at the moment, they are relatively small, though there are plans to increase them significantly. Despite the average Lithuanian earning much less than the average American, we also pay more for energy. For example, petrol costs $5.83 per gallon and electricity is $0.30 per kWh, which is almost double!

Re: Ambulance hits cyclist, rushes him to hospital, then sticks him with $1,800 bill

#306

Post by occz »

imgabe wrote: post #199
AnotherGoodName wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self driving cars are amazing in SF. I cycle there I feel much safer when there’s a self driving car behind me. Waymos, zooxes and cruises never accelerate hard to suddenly cut a turn in front of me rather than waiting behind me to turn across the cycle lane. They never get angry when there is no cycle lane and I’m forced to take up a full lane for a stretch. They have cold machine patience and attitude and to get aw…

Why is it always about banning things? Just make the self-driving experience good and most people will choose it voluntarily. No need to ban things. Almost everyone would rather take a nap or read a book than sit in traffic or stare at the highway.

We could compromise by turning up the liability for hitting someone with a car to eleven, making it unfeasible for anyone to even consider driving in a manner which threatens the life of another.

Of course, we'd have to implement unlimited liability for the self-driving car companies as to make them not hide behind their limited liability scheme to not treat safety with the utmost priority.

Re: Ambulance hits cyclist, rushes him to hospital, then sticks him with $1,800 bill

#307

Post by occz »

ThunderSizzle wrote: post #92
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> yet I can see a future where humans are barred from driving Increase the unsupervised driving age to 18 (unless in an area with no robotic transport) and massively increase penalties for driving infractions. As in you lose your license on your second DUI or third at-fault collision, reckless-driving ticket or cell phone violation. (Maybe make a DUI count as two infractions for the second list.)

People drive with a suspended license all the time. How else are getting to your job? Getting groceries? We pretend like driving is only a privilege, but it's more necessary than most rights that OSHA or other agencies have "discovered".

This is a problem you solve not by sacrificing the lives of others, but instead by designing built environments not dependent on driving cars.

Re: Ambulance hits cyclist, rushes him to hospital, then sticks him with $1,800 bill

#308

Post by occz »

lubujackson wrote: post #79
jordanb wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A waymo hit a cyclist in San Francisco a few months ago, by failing to anticipate that there may be traffic behind a turning truck and accelerating into it. https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/7/24065063/waymo-driverless-...

Just noting that the bicyclist is fully at fault for trying to jump the queue at a 4 way stop, and it sounds like they were going in a different direction than the turning truck as well. Hard to pin that one on Waymo, though I do feel like Waymo cars tend to drive a bit "city aggressive" at times, like asserting their right of way, sticking close to the car in front, etc.

Believe it or not, it's not allowed to drive in a manner which kills other road users breaking the rules of the road.

If not, I would be well within my rights to push speeding drivers (the vast majority in my experience) off the road when I drive, and I'm for very obvious reasons not allowed to do that.

Re: Ambulance hits cyclist, rushes him to hospital, then sticks him with $1,800 bill

#309

Post by occz »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #292
xeornet wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are riding on roads made for cars - you are an afterthought. Whether it’s the cars fault or not - cycling on the road is dangerous.

We probably should fix the roads. Blame the engineers who made it this way.

A good first step would be to impose liability for engineers designing roads which predictably leads to the deaths of its users.

I imagine a road-building engineer would think twice before approving a road with an unsafe design speed if it could lead to them being stripped of their license, fined or even jailed.

Re: Ambulance hits cyclist, rushes him to hospital, then sticks him with $1,800 bill

#310

Post by occz »

7e wrote: post #107
nritchie wrote: post #13

As a bicyclist, I'm constantly told how dangerous bicycles are. Usually, I get a blank look when I explain, bicycles are very safe, it is the cars that are the dangerous part of the equation. Now I'll have to add fast billing ambulances to the list of dangers.

Many cyclists bike like raving a*holes, and it is dangerous, both for them and for cars which cannot predict how they will behave. I could imagine cases where the the car might swerve and hit something else besides the cyclist. So yes, bicycles can be dangerous to cars in a roundabout way.

Feel free to operate your car at a non-lethal speed if your driving skills do not permit you to damage other road users. In the neighborhood of 20 km/h should probably allow you to never commit fatal mistakes.
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