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A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

arstechnica.com

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Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#301

Post by _yb2s »

I’m pretty convinced the whole field of dentistry is BS. I’ve had a bunch of times where they said I had a massive problem needing lots of expensive work- one dentist said I had 22 cavities that needed filling. I have simply never done any of it- I’m middle aged and have had no dental work done ever- and the next dentist months or years later makes no mention of whatever supposedly serious problem the previous one found.

I can really only think of 3 likely explanations: (1) our teeth actually repair cavities on their own and dentists simply don’t know this, (2) there is no reliable objective process to diagnose a cavity that is repeatable from one dentist to another, (3) lastly some sizable fraction of dentists are con artists with no integrity or ethics. Personally, I would not be at all surprised if all 3 were true.

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#302

Post by massysett »

burningChrome wrote: post #194
rootusrootus wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is some merit to that idea. It is not perfect, but it is a potential red flag. I experienced something similar a couple weeks ago when I went to a local dermatologist for a skin cancer screening. The office was gorgeous. Top of the line everything, spacious, just incredible. When the doctor came in, he was a whirlwind - he glanced at my back, the fronts of my arms, and my face ... then pronounced me in…

>> He billed my insurance just under $300 for an exam that took under 5 minutes. This is really common in health care. I injured my shoulder during hockey and went to the ER. The ER nurse told me to go to a specialty clinic that had offices all over town. Told me to bring a book since they do walk ins and it will be a while before I was seen. Brought a book and checked in. Three hours later, they took me back. I wait…

The 5 minutes or 2 minutes doesn’t impress me as being a problem. Indeed it can be an indicator of great efficiency.

A doctor that takes 2 minutes took years of experience, training, and expensive education so that he can evaluate you in 2 minutes. He also operates an office and staffs it.

Would it be better if he took an hour to do the same thing? Not to me.

Similarly, I’m an attorney. 5 minutes with me on a question in my field of expertise is worth the same as a whole day’s worth of time of an inexperienced attorney, which in turn is worth more than a whole week’s worth of time of a random know-nothing off the street.

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#303

Post by everdimension »

hansonkd wrote: post #31

This might sound stupid but I refuse to go to dentists that have "too nice" of an office. Over the years I have lived in several places and had a variety of dentists and one common theme that sticks with me, the nicer and higher tech the office is, the more procedures they are going to recommend you. They need to pay for the equipment and office somehow. I've had one dentist say I need 3 cavities filled. That I neede…

While I mostly share the same opinion and tend to agree with your conclusion, strictly speaking your observations do not prove that the original doctors were wrong. One could argue that the "poorer" dentist offices are like that precisely because they are worse at treating patients and either aren't trained enough to notice the problematic signs or just care less because they have a lot of patients and aren't paid a lot.

I really wish these exams and observations were "provable" somehow and much more strict, and weren't a matter of collecting second, third and fourth opinions.

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#304

Post by jiggawatts »

hansonkd wrote: post #31

This might sound stupid but I refuse to go to dentists that have "too nice" of an office. Over the years I have lived in several places and had a variety of dentists and one common theme that sticks with me, the nicer and higher tech the office is, the more procedures they are going to recommend you. They need to pay for the equipment and office somehow. I've had one dentist say I need 3 cavities filled. That I neede…

I have a similar experience in the IT consulting world. The big companies with the fancy office and the account manager with the $10K suit will recommend that every project needs — I’m not exaggerating — a project manager, a project coordinator, a test manager, two testers, a test designer, an enterprise architect, a customer liaison, a change manager, a change coordinator (somehow different to project coordinator!?) ten software developers, and two senior developers (at three times the daily rate).

That was for a project I completed with a short script I whipped up on the Monday morning.

I have sensible shoes and I sometimes iron my shirt.

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#305

Post by singleshot_ »

burningChrome wrote: post #194
rootusrootus wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is some merit to that idea. It is not perfect, but it is a potential red flag. I experienced something similar a couple weeks ago when I went to a local dermatologist for a skin cancer screening. The office was gorgeous. Top of the line everything, spacious, just incredible. When the doctor came in, he was a whirlwind - he glanced at my back, the fronts of my arms, and my face ... then pronounced me in…

>> He billed my insurance just under $300 for an exam that took under 5 minutes. This is really common in health care. I injured my shoulder during hockey and went to the ER. The ER nurse told me to go to a specialty clinic that had offices all over town. Told me to bring a book since they do walk ins and it will be a while before I was seen. Brought a book and checked in. Three hours later, they took me back. I wait…

You were diagnosed and referred by a nurse in an emergency department? That sounds strange. Was this an offhand suggestion, or a formal referral?

If I went to the hospital and a nurse gave me any instructions I would be absolutely perplexed.

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#306

Post by phil21 »

singleshot_ wrote: post #305
burningChrome wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> He billed my insurance just under $300 for an exam that took under 5 minutes. This is really common in health care. I injured my shoulder during hockey and went to the ER. The ER nurse told me to go to a specialty clinic that had offices all over town. Told me to bring a book since they do walk ins and it will be a while before I was seen. Brought a book and checked in. Three hours later, they took me back. I wait…

You were diagnosed and referred by a nurse in an emergency department? That sounds strange. Was this an offhand suggestion, or a formal referral? If I went to the hospital and a nurse gave me any instructions I would be absolutely perplexed.

NPs are pretty common these days in EDs for anything not immediately life threatening. It's completely normal to get a referral from one.

I'd assume that is what OP is talking about at least. It's getting rarer to see an actual physician for most visits in many areas.

Edit: thinking about it more, I've received referrals directly from nurses before as well. Usually the triage nurse.

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#307

Post by aucisson_masque »

rootusrootus wrote: post #175
hansonkd wrote: post #31

This might sound stupid but I refuse to go to dentists that have "too nice" of an office. Over the years I have lived in several places and had a variety of dentists and one common theme that sticks with me, the nicer and higher tech the office is, the more procedures they are going to recommend you. They need to pay for the equipment and office somehow. I've had one dentist say I need 3 cavities filled. That I neede…

I think there is some merit to that idea. It is not perfect, but it is a potential red flag. I experienced something similar a couple weeks ago when I went to a local dermatologist for a skin cancer screening. The office was gorgeous. Top of the line everything, spacious, just incredible. When the doctor came in, he was a whirlwind - he glanced at my back, the fronts of my arms, and my face ... then pronounced me in…

> He billed my insurance just under $300

Who pays the insurance that pays the scammer? There is no magic money, ultimately you're the one who paid 300$ for a 5 minutes exam.

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#309

Post by slowmovintarget »

bombarolo wrote: post #287
sirspacey wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This risk of being found out Higher socio-economic status = smaller local community

… better lawyers

...and better education, including the same social circles as, possibly, said dentists.

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#310

Post by fn-mote »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #292
bityard wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. In the US we seem to be trained that every medical professional is 100% truthful and knowledgeable. That is just simply NOT the case. Without going into the details, I had a fully-trained dermatologist with a PHD diagnose a sudden and severe skin condition. It turns out they got it so wrong it was hilarious. With no actual evidence or lab tests, he diagnosed it as something that was both very unlikely (borderlin…

> hemmed and hawed for several weeks over whether to email a reprimand to that Doctor's manager, but ultimately decided it wouldn't do any good. Why? I feel I'd at least want that on the record even if the manager chooses to do nothing. Given what you're saying sounds so blantalty off course and not just some honest mistake.

> Why? I feel I'd at least want that on the record [...]

What makes you think there is even a "record"?

People are choosing not to complain in these situations because they have a belief that it will have no effect.

If there were any record of negative effects for the "perpetrators", it might be different.

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