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Australia/Lord_Howe is the weirdest timezone

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Re: Australia/Lord_Howe is the weirdest timezone

#301
post #271
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is indeed a more logical clock, as it follows the natural cycle of activity. Equally, calendars that put the end of the year at the time after harvest ("autumn"), or at the start of agricultural work ("spring") are also more logical. Positioning the beginning of a new day at noon, and a new year t a solstice, is just a technical convenience, because these are easy to detect with very simple astronomy tools.

Only if everyone is a peasant farmer with the same crops in the same place. My activities are barely related to the height of the sun in the sky, and like the other residents of my city I don't take a ton of notice of harvest time. Bus timetables and cultural festivals are a much bigger deal (of which one in particular is indeed historically related to a harvest).

This "Day is 12 hours long" thing just doesn't work anywhere else.

I live far from the equator - "Dawn" is sometimes after breakfast, and "Dusk" can happen before I get off work.

Re: Australia/Lord_Howe is the weirdest timezone

#302

A thousand years ago, every village had their own timekeeping and it worked. Our village is now earth. What if we just abandoned daylight-savings time and timezones and just went with GMT (or anything else) for everywhere on earth? There would be cultural effects as people in California now start work at 16:00, for example...

UTC is problematic since it splits the day: when it's midnight in Greenwich, it's still yesterday for half the world. The Unix epoch occurred in 1969 in Hawaii.

BIT (UTC-12) is better. Only positive offsets. Everyone on the same day.

Re: Australia/Lord_Howe is the weirdest timezone

#303

Nah, the weirdest time zone is Africa/Addis_Ababa, which nobody in Ethiopia follows. Instead the locals offset the time by 6 hours. So the AM cycle starts at dawn (i.e. 6am), and the PM cycle starts at dusk (i.e. 6pm). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_Ethiopia

Interesting. I propose that the transition between AM and PM should happen right in the human-sensible middle of the day. If most people start their daily activity around 6, and retire by by 10pm, then the middle would be 14hrs.

This would also give a nice 3-part division to the day that matches their use: 1st 8 hours for the morning, next 8 hours for the afternoon, and the next 8 hours for evening/night. Currently, morning alone is 12 hours, and afternoon is like 6 (or less) and the evening takes the rest.

But I guess the current noon time is chosen for when the sun is highest in the sky, so maybe to preserve noon as the transition point, morning should start from 4:00 hrs, then the afternoon starts from 12:00 hours, and evening would start from 20:00 hours.

Re: Australia/Lord_Howe is the weirdest timezone

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes it more logical? The wheel turns all the same no matter where you mark the beginning. In the Northern hemisphere, there's actually something nice about starting the year in the dead of winter: it feels like the year is born in the spring and then dies away the following winter, not unlike a lifetime.

> it feels like the year is born in the spring Then shouldn't the start of the year be when the year is "born"? Or alternatively, the end of the year when the year "dies"? January 1 is neither.

The year "dies" on the longest, darkest nights. (Dec 21, technically). We mourn its passing and celebrate it's life with drinks. I'm guessing there was in antiquity, a whole bunch of dreadful and exciting parties in the last 10 days around the longest nights.

It slowly grows after that and blooms later.

Re: Australia/Lord_Howe is the weirdest timezone

#305

Another fun fact about timezones: if the government abolishes DST one year, and then moves some timezones an hour the next year, it creates a wild mess. Especially when you're building an Android app. Especially when it's the early 2010s so the timezone database is built into the system image but most devices that run your app don't receive system updates at all. Instead of picking the timezone with the correct offse…

I worked with a group of people once who just didn't care about timezones. All (ok, most) clocks were set to local time, but with some random timezone, about half of the time it was GMT, and 2/3 of the remainder were our actual timezone, but the rest were totally random. I had to write a "figure out what the time actually is" routine in my code because it was such a pervasive problem.

I ended up doing kinda the same. Our API already had a method to retrieve the current unixtime on the server, which I used, together with the user-set timezone, to figure out the UTC offset that the user actually meant to set by adjusting their clock.

Re: Australia/Lord_Howe is the weirdest timezone

#306
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethiopian time keeping is peculiar all over. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_calendar The Ethiopian calendar has twelve months, all thirty days long, and five or six epagomenal days, which form a thirteenth month.

That's similar to the Shire calendar system[1]. It has twelve months of 30 days, but the missing days are not in any month. 1: https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Shire_Calendar

Wasn't Tolkien's LOTR partly inspired by Ethiopia?

Re: Australia/Lord_Howe is the weirdest timezone

#307
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is indeed a more logical clock, as it follows the natural cycle of activity. Equally, calendars that put the end of the year at the time after harvest ("autumn"), or at the start of agricultural work ("spring") are also more logical. Positioning the beginning of a new day at noon, and a new year t a solstice, is just a technical convenience, because these are easy to detect with very simple astronomy tools.

What makes it more logical? The wheel turns all the same no matter where you mark the beginning. In the Northern hemisphere, there's actually something nice about starting the year in the dead of winter: it feels like the year is born in the spring and then dies away the following winter, not unlike a lifetime.

If the year is “born in the spring” then surely you would want the year to start in the spring (if not the spring equinox, then March) and not winter?

Re: Australia/Lord_Howe is the weirdest timezone

#308
post #264

At some point the correct solution is for engineers to collectively agree to refuse to model government-prescribed deviations from convention. Or, put more obliquely, provide more feedback to make it more obvious who is bearing the cost of the complexity of these requirements. It's a social problem and it calls for a social solution. I know, there's a lot of disagreement around where the point in question is, but it…

This sounds good until you realize that half or more of the software engineers are people working in 3rd world countries who just need a job, or they're H-1B's working in the US who can't afford to make waves. We would need to form some kind of global union and push back together.

In the US there is a great example of a government agency that works to reduce emergent complexity in situations like this - NIST.

NIST does a lot of work behind the scenes in advanced technical fields. I wonder if it would help if there was a NIST publication enumerating common time and date keeping patterns, like we have for cryptography.

Re: Australia/Lord_Howe is the weirdest timezone

#309
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except Blade is part of the MCu now since Deadpool 3 But I think the analogy may be being stretched

Ahh, figures. As soon as I said it I thought it likely that Marvel had roped it in at some point. Nothing is safe! Just wait til we get Star-Lord (Guardians of the Galaxy) accidentally facing off against some Jedi just so a writer can make some "Hans shot first" "inside" joke in some "way overshot the time travel to long ago in a galaxy far far away" plot...basically a movie to set up the joke in a trailer.

I'm just so relieved that Disney didn't buy Star Trek. Was slightly concerned by an offhand remark from the Doctor in the most recent Doctor Who series who made an off-hand comment about dropping in on the Star Trek people.

Re: Australia/Lord_Howe is the weirdest timezone

#310
post #291
post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really dislike this argument of "I'd rather enjoy the sun in the evening than in the morning" My argument is not "I'd rather enjoy the sun in the evening than in the morning", my argument is "From what I can observe, most people would prefer an hour of sunlight at the end of the day rather than in its beginning". This is not about what I think, it's about what most people think. > what is the sun going down at 6…

Did you take a poll, or do you just have the feeling that that is the case? Not to mention, it's a bit weaselly. It offsets the burden of defending the position to "most people". And it doesn't even matter what "most people" think. "Most people" in this case, would be wrong. Even if it were "most people" and not "most people whose opinions you've happened to remember on the subject because they happen to align with y…

> It offsets the burden of defending the position to "most people".

Decisions where the only effect is to align something arbitrary with people's preferences can only be made through appeal to the majority.

> And it doesn't even matter what "most people" think.

Yes. Yes it does.

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