Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pretty sure France wasn't a thing in the ice age
They were people living in what is now called France. Nova did an episode on it.
Yes and they weren't "Frenchmen".
Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says
301–310 of 363 posts
Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're making this weird semantic distinction that is irrelevant. Nobody is arguing that Spain was a single, completely unified polity before the Islamic conquests. But it was controlled by the Christian Visigothic Kingdom of Spain, and then it was conquered by the Islamic Umayyads, so the reconquista was to bring it back under Christian rule.
The semantic distinction is relevant because Reconquista, with the capital R and everything, is an ideological, propagandistic narrative by the Spanish (central government) originating in the 20th century.
If we're going to be pedantic, the capital-R Reconquista name for the process of the -uh- re-conquest of Spain was introduced in the 19th century. And it was used throughout Latin America in elementary schoolbooks at least in the 1980s. Franco might have wanted to do some propagandizing with the term, but it was mainly seen as a non-partisan propaganda because Catholicism was a unifying force in Hispanic cultures rather than a partisan and divisive one.
Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
I seriously doubt he was an idiot. But his thinking was constrained by what was known at the time and what was commonly thought to be true. Our modern thinking is also constrained by similar misjudgments, we just like to think we're smarter than that. 500 years hence, people will laugh at our idiocy.
Knowledgeable Europeans knew that the Earth was round and they knew its size to within a few percent. Columbus thought that the Earth was much smaller though, and in that belief "he was an idiot". It's quite possible that he was trying to make an impossible voyage seem possible, but then again, he didn't take enough provisions, and it was almost a total loss.
This is not accurate. Everyone knew the Earth was round and had a good knowledge of the Earth's circumference, as this can be determined with geometry and some basic measurements. What was not well known at the time was the size of Asia, and specifically the distance from Asia's eastern coastline to Japan's easternmost islands, due to the lack of surveying data. Columbus grossly overestimated the size of Asia such that Japan would be approximately where North America actually is.
Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says
#304Earlier quoted context omitted.
The semantic distinction is relevant because Reconquista, with the capital R and everything, is an ideological, propagandistic narrative by the Spanish (central government) originating in the 20th century.
Let me guess. You are Catalonian, right?
La Vanguardia certainly is.
It seems like a bit of iconoclasm to deny the Reconquista because it helps (does it?) with the Catalan claim to independence. In LatAm people don't really care about any of Spain's internal politics, and the Reconquista is simply an accepted fact of history.
The capitalization of the word might be a propagandistic act, but it might also just be an application of modern style, or just recognition that the concept requires a bit more dignity, or something.
This entire sub-thread stinks of... anti-Spanish propaganda, heh.
Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says
#305Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/4ovuao/la_re...
This just confirms the point I made above about naming. What's your point exactly?
The point about the naming isn't very interesting. The concept existed since medieval times. In the 18th century it got termed reconquista. Later, in the 19th century it got capitalized. None of that is 20th century Francoist propaganda even if Franco did also push the concept.
Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says
#306Earlier quoted context omitted.
They were people living in what is now called France. Nova did an episode on it.
Yes and they weren't "Frenchmen".
Even when there was a nominal French kingdom, substantial "state" intervention was required to form a cohesive cultural identity, ironing out dramatic regional linguistic differences, systems of measurement, etc. Definitely a "beat it fit, paint it to match" kind of situation.
Still, it's fun to imagine that if you time-machined back to a gallic region in the ice age, you'd come across a guy who'd strike you as remarkably "French". Like, "ohhh.. this guy." HA! I would love him as dearly as all humanity. :D
Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says
#307Makes sense. Now that the Graun's chief enemy is Israel and Colonialism, why not combine two favored targets into one hateful guy? I'm also pretty sure he was cis-gendered.
yes, I was just seeing some initial whisper that Columbus was a Zionist and jews to blame for the slave trade and genocide of Americas natives.
Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
Conversos and Moriscos were overrepresented among the early Spanish settlers [0]. Same story in Portuguese territories as well. An exodus of Sephardim and Muslims was a win-win for the Spanish crown - they'd lose (in their eyes) a potential 5th column in their competition against the Ottoman Empire as well as have manpower to nominally stake their claim in the New World. [0] - https://www.jewishideas.org/article/betw…
At the time, the Spanish were completely unaware that Columbus would find a land that could be settled. The goal of the expedition was finding a route to East Asia to establish trade with those known-to-be-inhabited areas. Colonization was a pivot after Columbus did not find Asia.
Also colonization didn't start in earnest until several decades later. For a generation or two the exploitation of the Americas was largely extractive.
Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says
#309This certainly smells like a History Channel "documentary" to me! Right up there with Ancient Aliens and the like. - Analysis that is not shared to review - Data that is not shared for review - Broad assumptions that are quickly narrowed down to "facts" - There is "more evidence but we can't show you because.... reasons"
Besides the idea that DNA can show from 500 years away that a person came from one or another side of a modern border is just not understanding how any of this works.
Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says
#310Earlier quoted context omitted.
You pretend like it was a bunch of villages living in happy harmony until the Catholics arrived. You're lying. It was part of the post-Roman empire, then it got conquered by Muslims, then it got re-conquered by Catholics. Hence, reconquista.
Off-topic but why do people keep referring to Catholic Christians as Catholics as opposed to just Christians? I noticed that a lot in anglo-saxon spheres. It seems to function as an othering technique. I wonder if you are aware of you doing it. Other groups don't seem to get that kind of categorisation (just look at this thread)
To emphasis that we, like the Orthodox, Copts, Syriacs, etc. have apostolic succession while the protestants do not.