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US weighs Google break-up in landmark antitrust case

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Re: US weighs Google break-up in landmark antitrust case

#301

Post by AlienRobot »

araes wrote: post #260
arghwhat wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After having been a paid subscriber for a number of months, I have to say that it still wasn't cutting it. I still ended up falling back to google all the time. Plus, https://d-shoot.net/kagi.html

One part I can add, having tried Ecosia [1] is it at least made me consider question like: "Are they actually planting these trees?" and "How would I possibly verify?" "Does Microsoft actually pay them? All I'm doing is clicking? Is that worth enough?" "How does anybody verify, and how is it not just an optimization for Ecosia to farm clicks for money? Chinese/Indian/Bangladeshi/Nigerian/MechTurk click farms don't co…

They have all that information in their website.

The only earn money if people click ads, just like any other search engine. Microsoft isn't paying them to show them Bing results.

Re: US weighs Google break-up in landmark antitrust case

#302

Post by dartos »

someluccc wrote: post #293
dartos wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A) Do you pay them? - No: then yes it is free And here we see the ostrich. When faced with the horrors of reality, sticks its head in the sand. It’s simpler in there.

Your data is worthless. Please do tell me how much you could sell your “data” for right now.

My data, sure, but the data of my entire age/racial/economic group is worth a lot to marketing firms. There’s a ton of that information in emails.

That’s literally google’s business model.

You think Gmail is free bc Google is nice?

Come on…

Re: US weighs Google break-up in landmark antitrust case

#303

Post by ta1243 »

dehrmann wrote: post #106
tivert wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're getting it backwards. The research operations are a desperate attempt stave off regulation to keep the sweet, sweet monopoly profits coming in (and those profits are so big that the bean-counters allow it). I believe that was the explicit strategy at AT&T. We collectively pay way, way more. It'd be way more efficient and cost effective to just set up a well-funded government labs to do that research.

It's an interesting argument for monopolies possibly being a net-good, but I don't think regulators really look at it. Companies do R&D because they like their monopoly status and don't want to be caught flat-footed by something new.

Yes. If a large company didn't employ those researchers, someone else would, and if they were for someone else maybe they'll come up with something which could damage the large company.

It's not about building and owning the next best thing, it's about preventing someone else building and owning the next best thing.

Re: US weighs Google break-up in landmark antitrust case

#304

Post by someluccc »

dartos wrote: post #289
someluccc wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A) Do you pay them? - No: then yes it is free “But my data” Have your ever sold your data? Would the value you could ever possibly receive for your data ever equate to the value you get from the free services? Likely No and No. Is the free ad supported city newspaper free? Yes it is in fact free, just like FM radio is free, and broadcast television is free, and sidewalks next to billboards are free Someone creating s…

> A) Do you pay them? - No: then yes it is free And here we see the ostrich. When faced with the horrors of reality, sticks its head in the sand. It’s simpler in there.

If I build a movie theater and give away the tickets knowing that I can make money on ads before a movie that does not mean that 5 minutes of your eyesight is now worth something

Re: US weighs Google break-up in landmark antitrust case

#305

Post by Jyaif »

giobox wrote: post #154
mensetmanusman wrote: post #139

DeepMind wouldn’t have happened to the level it did had google been broken up prior.

There was no shortage of other deep-pocketed suitors trying to buy DeepMind too during the Google acquisition back in 2014 - I think DeepMind would have likely found a reasonable home regardless.

Among the big tech companies, only Google cared about AI at the time.

Re: US weighs Google break-up in landmark antitrust case

#306

Post by wetpaws »

kachapopopow wrote: post #173
arghwhat wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After having been a paid subscriber for a number of months, I have to say that it still wasn't cutting it. I still ended up falling back to google all the time. Plus, https://d-shoot.net/kagi.html

Interesting read.

[dead]

Re: US weighs Google break-up in landmark antitrust case

#307

Post by someluccc »

dartos wrote: post #302
someluccc wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your data is worthless. Please do tell me how much you could sell your “data” for right now.

My data, sure, but the data of my entire age/racial/economic group is worth a lot to marketing firms. There’s a ton of that information in emails. That’s literally google’s business model. You think Gmail is free bc Google is nice? Come on…

So in this transaction you’re exchanging something that is individually worthless for something that is individually valuable.

Which is a bad thing and should stop. Right now!

Ps: it’s also not like you’re paying so little that you could say you’re getting it for…… free

Re: US weighs Google break-up in landmark antitrust case

#308

Post by ta1243 »

apercu wrote: post #87
GauntletWizard wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could interpret this the other way - Why has Jeff Dean been snubbed by the Nobel committee? Why hasn't Larry Page gotten a Nobel for inventing the search technology that half the planet now depends on? I don't know what category to put that one in, but there's some important results in lightspeed-limited communications in "The Datacenter as a Computer" that would be worth extending the Physics category for.

"search technology" Google is an advertising company, search is a by-product and has been for a long time.

About 20 years ago it wasn't, and Google's pagerank stuff was revolutionary and potentially nobel prize worthy (no idea, I'm not a scientist)

Re: US weighs Google break-up in landmark antitrust case

#309

Post by ta1243 »

someluccc wrote: post #265
Kon5ole wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that makes markets work is the struggle. A Darwinian survival of the fittest in a way. Once the struggle is over and only one contestant remains, the results are generally dystopian. Also I believe that even when working optimally the Darwinian mechanism can't solve certain problems. Some things need to be dealt with by a group of motivated people working for other goals than profit. Markets gave us compuse…

Yes I can see the dystopian consequences of google’s search monopoly profits, which they have used to do such horrible things as: - Providing a free alternative to Microsoft’s monopolized office suite and desktop OS - Provide a free alternative to Apple’s mobile OS, spurring a revolution in access to the internet for the world’s poor - Provide free global maps with streetview sights - Provide a free to access video p…

Very few of that is free. openstreetmap - that's free. Google maps is an advertising and data mining platform.

Re: US weighs Google break-up in landmark antitrust case

#310

Post by CuriouslyC »

loumaciel wrote: post #257
CuriouslyC wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general advertising is low ROI, the tradeoff being that it's "easy." I think a lot of these businesses could succeed using alternative promotional strategies. Some of them might suffer because the owners have more money than time and advertising is a good tradeoff in that case, but overall good products are still going to do well.

What alternative promotional strategies?

Social media/content marketing/cold outreach/trade shows/events/etc
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