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Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

theverge.com

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Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#301

Post by mr_toad »

GeekyBear wrote: post #151
tmtvl wrote: post #6

Wait, so the Google Play Store, which you can install alternatives to (F-Droid, Aurora, Amazon,...), and where you can easily install apps through other means (such as downloading an APK through your browser and running it from the file manager) is an illegal monopoly while the Apple App Store isn't? Well, I guess Google's market cap is only 2 trillion compared to Apple's 3 trillion, so I guess that's fair.

If you claim the platform you create is open, but use anticompetitive actions to retain control of it, you end up in a worse legal position than you would have by being clear that the platform is closed. Look at Microsoft. They have been found guilty of anticompetitive conduct related to their open Windows platform in multiple jurisdictions, but not so with XBox. Either never claim your platform is open, or refrain f…

> Look at Microsoft. They have been found guilty of anticompetitive conduct related to their open Windows platform in multiple jurisdictions, but not so with XBox.

It helps a lot that they are the only sellers of the XBox. With Windows they were strong-arming third party manufacturers. The situation is similar with Apple and iOS. Because it’s “their” phone they have more control. Google was telling other manufacturers of android phones what to do, which crossed a line.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#302

Post by johnnyanmac »

gerash wrote: post #201
dmvdoug wrote: post #163

For all the people commenting on the discrepancy between this ruling and the one in Apple’s case: now perhaps you see the value of good lawyers. Apple was able to convince the judge in their case to fairly narrowly define the market segment at issue. Google failed to do that here. And no, it’s not as simple as saying they’re the same so this will get overturned on appeal to stay consistent with the Apple ruling. The…

Good lawyers or BS legal system?

Bias in a supposedly neutral court would certainly fall under BS legal systems, yes.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#303

Post by ordu »

jasoneckert wrote: post #292

The most interesting bit for me was "I won’t discuss the Apple case more than this brief outline since I’m ethically bound." This included a link to: https://www.theverge.com/authors/sean-hollister/archives/38 Did his wife sign an Apple NDA that applies to family members? Or does he not want to anger Apple out of fear of retaliation towards his wife? Either way, I don't see how the word "ethics" applies to either sit…

He has a potential motive to lie or to distort the truth. Or maybe he has not, but an outside observer cannot know it for sure. So if he will speak freely he will become a target of attacks based on his supposed hidden motivation, and it can happen without regard to his real impartiality.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#304

Post by johnnyanmac »

itake wrote: post #298
johnnyanmac wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

okay. Then I just use APK pure and find the APKs there. See what freedom does? Realistically, this never happens. making a platform isn't some cheap endeavor like a landing page for a website. Most people will stay on the play store and use play services. Those with more skin will consider alternative stores, and then lastly some will make their own platforms.

If the phone manufacturers stop including the play store in the default install. Then would people still use the play store?

that's the funny thing. I think they still will, but the people up in Google apparently don't even want to risk the chance of losing any marketshare. That's why they spend millions to Apple to keep Google as the default search, even though many consumer's first instinct is to go to Google as is.

It's a strange strategy to me, but I guess I may underestimate however many people will just stick to whatever pops up first.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#305

Post by croes »

mike_d wrote: post #22

Epic's "First Run" program does all the things they got mad at Apple and Google about. You don't have to pay any license fees for Unreal Engine if you use Epic exclusively for payments. They give you 100% revshare for 6 months if you agree to not ship your game on any other app store. Let's not kid ourselves, Epic never cared about consumer choice or a fair playing field, they only want the ability to profit without…

And we don't care about Epic and still want the benefits of their trials.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#306

Post by 393744748 »

akira2501 wrote: post #48
tencentshill wrote: post #21

Soon we'll have the Verizon Appstore and the Spotify Appstore and the Zoom Appstore, the exclusive home for each app and their partners, each with it's own overlapping user tracking libraries and insecure payment methods, and no one can even tell them to do otherwise. Coming soon to iOS, too!

Yep. Then consumers can decide which one is best for them. Then they can compete. Then the best features with the best pricing, no only for customers, but the cut for developers, can be discovered. You pay such a high price for living in the walled garden. I honestly can't imagine why you would _want_ it.

I want it because I've seen the Samsung app store and am not inspired by the idea of more trash. People like curated gardens because they're curated.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#307

Post by ranger_danger »

seany wrote: post #149
Timshel wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just allowing alternative stores, it's stuff like: - Stop requiring Google Play Billing for apps distributed on the Google Play Store (the jury found that Google had illegally tied its payment system to its app store) - Let Android developers tell users about other ways to pay from within the Play Store - Let Android developers link to ways to download their apps outside of the Play Store - Let Android devel…

- 3rd party store auto updates (you need to install some stuff as root in order to get this working on f-droid)

This is not true, I get automatic updates with F-Droid just fine.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#308

Post by _imnothere »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #288
Izkata wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of OEMs (and non-Google Android in general), Google has moved some functionality from base Android into Google Play Services so some apps won't work unless you get that installed.

This is easily seen to be false, but I see it repeated often. The functionality in Google Play Services requires a server. If you don't use Google services, you don't need Play Services. https://developers.google.com/android/reference/packages

Apparently you don't know enough about Android, a perfect example of this is eSIM, you simply couldn't use eSIM without Google Play Services.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#309

Post by underbiding »

reissbaker wrote: post #295
mvdtnz wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were both in the same court (United States District Court for the Northern District of California).

Although Epic appealed to SCOTUS, and SCOTUS rejected their appeal, which makes it seem like SCOTUS is unlikely to rule that app stores have to be open. In general the judicial system's bizarre treatment of Apple baffles and somewhat infuriates me. If Google has to allow alternative app stores on Android due to monopoly power, and has to allow alternate billing options due to monopoly power, and yet is the smaller of…

The difference is that Apple doesn't try and pretend their platform is open-source, whereas Google wants to have its cake (i.e. impose competitive blockers on their own platform) and eat it too (i.e. benefit from calling their platform open source and having free development fed back into it).

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#310

Post by EasyMark »

tmtvl wrote: post #6

Wait, so the Google Play Store, which you can install alternatives to (F-Droid, Aurora, Amazon,...), and where you can easily install apps through other means (such as downloading an APK through your browser and running it from the file manager) is an illegal monopoly while the Apple App Store isn't? Well, I guess Google's market cap is only 2 trillion compared to Apple's 3 trillion, so I guess that's fair.

Two different cases in two different courts, it’s bound to happen. No judge has to abide by the decision of other judges except when it finally hits SCOTUS
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