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Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

innocenceproject.org

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Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#301

Post by diogenes_atx »

MikeAmelung wrote: post #295
diogenes_atx wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The full quote from the article in justia.com states the following: "In November of 1999, University City police approached Asaro to speak with her about the murder. Asaro told the police that Williams admitted to her that he had killed Gayle. The next day, the police searched the Buick LeSabre and found the Post-Dispatch ruler and calculator belonging to Gayle. The police also recovered the laptop computer from Glen…

I was just helping everyone understand that your important clarification, was in fact, wrong. Since I wasn't on the jury, I can't say whether or not I would have been ok with the death penalty in this case, although the murder was particularly heinous.

[flagged]

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#302

Post by Bnjoroge »

MikeAmelung wrote: post #261
diogenes_atx wrote: post #253

Many of the contributors to this thread are under the wrong impression that the police found the victim's laptop and other items in Marcellus Williams' car. This is not true. According to Wikipedia, the murder occurred in August 1998, but it was not until May 1999 that the victim's family "announced a $10,000 reward for information leading to an arrest and conviction in the case. In response, two individuals, Henry C…

"The next day, the police searched the Buick LeSabre and found the Post-Dispatch ruler and calculator belonging to Gayle. The police also recovered the laptop computer from Glenn Roberts. The laptop was identified as the one stolen from Gayle's residence." https://law.justia.com/cases/missouri/supreme-court/2003/sc-...

not the same thing at all lmao

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#303

Post by asveikau »

rdtsc wrote: post #2

> Even the victim’s family believes life without parole is the appropriate sentence That is odd, if there is no evidence that links him to the crime why not argue to let him go? Is that just from a desire to have someone punished, no matter who it is.

As I understand it, it's also extremely rare for a prosecutor to admit mistakes and that a convicted person is innocent, even when it is sufficiently proven, they tend to double down on bad convictions. In this case the prosecutor said the defendant didn't do it. Which makes this a very rare case.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#304

Post by nycticorax »

Is the transcript of the original court case available online somewhere? The oldest thing I'm seeing is

https://law.justia.com/cases/missouri/supreme-court/2003/sc-... ,

which is (I think...) the decision of the state supreme court on the appeal. There are several points where it seems like there is some dispute about what exactly the evidence is tying Williams to the murder, and where the original trial transcript might help clarify things.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#305

Post by blendergeek »

seadan83 wrote: post #256
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> argument is that the girlfriend and jailhouse snitch both were looking to get the $10k reward money for his conviction The Governor's counterargument being the "girlfriend never requested the reward for information about Ms. Gayle’s murder, despite claims that she was only interested in money" [1]. The interesting thing is I could see myself, were I on the jury, and if the other facts of the case aligned, finding W…

> But I can't reach the certainty I'd want for the death penalty There is a degree of certainty required for a conviction. It is up to the jury to only decide if that degree of certainty has been reached. It is up to the judge to determine the sentence. I make this point as the US justice system is set up explicitly so that the jury is not considering the sentencing, but only guilty or not guilty. This removes the ro…

In Missouri (as in most US States with capital punishment), the death penalty must separately be approved by the jury after the jury convicts.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_Un...

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#306

Post by MisterBastahrd »

seadan83 wrote: post #278
Hasu wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If prosecutors are going to be biased either way, I'd prefer a choice in those biases.

Then you're also okay with me choosing the bias of a prosecutor prosecuting you?

Who, exactly, gets to choose how unbiased the prosecutor is? You won't get that from a democratic election and you won't get that from elected officials choosing them.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#307

Post by blendergeek »

XorNot wrote: post #243
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> argument is that the girlfriend and jailhouse snitch both were looking to get the $10k reward money for his conviction The Governor's counterargument being the "girlfriend never requested the reward for information about Ms. Gayle’s murder, despite claims that she was only interested in money" [1]. The interesting thing is I could see myself, were I on the jury, and if the other facts of the case aligned, finding W…

It also highlights the stupidity of the death penalty: the jury is instructed "if you find this person guilty, we will kill them for it" - i.e. an action with no possibility of reversal or redress. It's an odd stress test of the idea of "reasonable doubt" because of course in reality, there's always some doubt but the level of doubt for "let's irreversible kill a person" versus "let's detain them for life, but admit…

In Missouri (as in most US States with capital punishment), the death penalty must separately be approved by the jury after the jury convicts.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_Un...

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#308

Post by lolinder »

diogenes_atx wrote: post #301
MikeAmelung wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just helping everyone understand that your important clarification, was in fact, wrong. Since I wasn't on the jury, I can't say whether or not I would have been ok with the death penalty in this case, although the murder was particularly heinous.

[flagged]

If the ruler and calculator in fact belonged to the victim that is an important clarification of your "the police did not find the victim's property in Williams' car", and your reaction is unnecessarily dismissive. Just acknowledge the error and move on, no need for sarcastic defensiveness.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#309

Post by blendergeek »

awb wrote: post #252
nemothekid wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unfortunate that a lot of the messaging has shifted to he's innocent, where I believe the right message (and far less viral message), is the government has not shown enough evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that the death penalty is warranted. I don't believe in the death penalty because I don't think the state should have the authority to execute citizens and even moreso when a very high bar of culpability has…

> the government has not shown enough evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that the death penalty is warranted The jury only provided the unanimous guilty verdict. After that point, the defendant has been declared guilty beyond all reasonable doubt by the state, and it's up to the judge to determine the appropriate punishment for someone guilty of the crime of 1st degree murder, robbery, etc. It's possible that some on…

> The jury only provided the unanimous guilty verdict. After that point, the defendant has been declared guilty beyond all reasonable doubt by the state, and it's up to the judge to determine the appropriate punishment for someone guilty of the crime of 1st degree murder, robbery, etc.

In Missouri (as in most US States with capital punishment), the death penalty must separately be approved by the jury after the jury convicts.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_Un...

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#310

Post by seadan83 »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #296
seadan83 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did Democrats have a filibuster proof majority since 1970? IIRC that has not been the case since at least 2000 (perhaps going back even further). Passing such a law would require a filibuster proof majority. I agree to the sentiment of uselessness, but some fairness should be payed. Congress is kinda dysfunctional with any serious legislation requiring a super majority in congress and the presidency.

Yes, twice. 95th Congress in 1977-1979 there were 61 Democrat Senators And briefly in 2009-10 at the beginning of Obama's first term.

Ah, I forgot the 2009 period - thank you for looking that up!

I personally feel the Democrats were not moving to pass that legislation in 2009 because it "felt" that Roe was solid after having been challenged so many times. Therefore the legislation would have been unnecessary and (arguably) bad politics.

I don't mean to shift goal posts. This is where I agree with the sentiment expressed and (as pointed out) there was opportunity. It is quite damning, the democratic party has the problem of not playing hardball.

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