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Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

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Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#301

Post by philipwhiuk »

kergonath wrote: post #213
kmlx wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this take is naive. building alternatives takes time and resources. the EU has neither. a diverse, competitive tech ecosystem with both EU and non-EU players is better than a protectionist approach. hoping for an exodus of major global players when you’re leapfrogged by both China and the US…

> building alternatives takes time and resources. the EU has neither. The EU does not have the motivation, mostly. They are not rivals of the US in the way China is. So money goes elsewhere. Europe is still a continent with a whole bunch of people and quite a lot of money. The path of least resistance is to just use American solutions in some areas and to develop others locally. This might change and if there is a va…

Except there already alternatives to Uber

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#302

Post by flanked-evergl »

eclecticfrank wrote: post #195
philip1209 wrote: post #182

Which big tech company will be the first to stop doing business in Europe? It's going to happen sooner or later.

Not many will shed a tear for Uber. Europe had taxis, private for hire limousines, taxi apps and delivery services long before Uber arrived. And no, they won't leave. They will comply in order to have access to the European market.

> Europe had taxis, private for hire limousines, taxi apps and delivery services long before Uber arrived.

All the "Uber" rip-offs in Norway are worse than Uber was last time I used it. Not that anyone can afford to use a taxi here anyway unless the government covers the bill, which they do and which is the only thing that keeps taxis employed, I think.

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#303

Post by alex_suzuki »

eclecticfrank wrote: post #195
philip1209 wrote: post #182

Which big tech company will be the first to stop doing business in Europe? It's going to happen sooner or later.

Not many will shed a tear for Uber. Europe had taxis, private for hire limousines, taxi apps and delivery services long before Uber arrived. And no, they won't leave. They will comply in order to have access to the European market.

At least here in non-EU Switzerland, Uber often provides superior service over regular taxis. They‘re cheaper and you can’t get ripped off by a driver choosing a more circuitous route.

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#305

Post by snowpid »

jonathan_landy wrote: post #282
snowpid wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dankeschön für die Antwort! You might understand that I read only Bio and LinkedIn, not your whole blog. Also again very very American thinking. Im just amused.

And which kind of thinking led you to assert he lived in us his whole life on the basis of what little you read?

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Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#306

Post by calebbish2 »

bitmasher9 wrote: post #300
OKRainbowKid wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you suggest they express their disapproval, if not through the legal system? I'm personally not opposed to holding conpany executives personally accountable, including jail time in severe cases, but I don't think this would go over well with the US government.

The fines seem to be low enough to be a Cost of Business while not high enough to actually force behavior for the largest companies. While the personal accountability would be nice but is political infeasible, I wonder if the EU could revoke business licenses to remove US companies access to the EU market.

[dead]

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#307

Post by jeroenhd »

judge2020 wrote: post #234
AlanYx wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EC has issued an "adequacy decision" regarding the new EU–US Data Privacy Framework (the replacement for Privacy Shield): https://commission.europa.eu/document/fa09cbad-dd7d-4684-ae6... and has begun "certifying" compliance with the Framework: https://www.dataprivacyframework.gov/list So maybe the DPAs will defer to the EC's interpretation of adequacy under the GDPR for this new Framework? Lots of unknowns though…

> The only "safe" option without any uncertainty seems to be architect every system so that data never transits to the US and is also never in the custody of a subsidiary of a US-domiciled corporate parent. If i'm not mistaken, because of this (via[0]) > The CLOUD Act primarily amends the Stored Communications Act (SCA) of 1986 to allow federal law enforcement to compel U.S.-based technology companies via warrant or…

It's true, the extensive surveillance capabilities the American government demands from American businesses is one of the reasons American companies cannot enter the European market.

I doubt this will change any time soon. The GDPR isn't going away, and the USA isn't known for loosening their data collection laws. Maybe in a few years the EU can find a legal ground to allow the USA to spy on EU citizens without acceptable legal defences, maybe the USA will give up their capability to use American businesses as a tool to spy on the EU, but for now surveillance law is a major roadblock for American companies expanding to Europe.

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#308

Post by bitmasher9 »

akudha wrote: post #219
philip1209 wrote: post #182

Which big tech company will be the first to stop doing business in Europe? It's going to happen sooner or later.

Why do you think they will leave? They will make noise, complain but if the choice is between following rules or give up profits, they will fall in line. Money trumps everything else. They will however keep lobbying, support candidates favorable to them etc. EU (and other governments) should be vigilant all the time. The moment they take it easy a bit, big tech will be back to their usual shenanigans

The EU fines based on global revenue. If the EU is a small part of a companies’ profit then they may decide to stay away for liability reasons.

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#309

Post by bayindirh »

lolinder wrote: post #293
pylua wrote: post #146

Funny thing is, us data is almost always maintained by people outside of the US, at least for banking. The servers may live in the us, but the people accessing it are probably located in Europe or India. This also means that the data lives their temporarily while it is being accessed. The US definitely needs stronger laws here.

> The US definitely needs stronger laws here. Can someone clarify for me why the physical location where data is stored is a big deal? Why does the US need stronger laws here? This is probably just my inner naive technologist speaking, but I really enjoyed the moment of time during which the internet was a global network of computers that created a virtual space where physical borders were largely irrelevant. So it's…

> Can someone clarify for me why the physical location where data is stored is a big deal?

What can you do if your data is silently copied by third parties and used for other activities? What if I build a ghost profile of you and steal your identity when I have enough data? What if I relay that you have a fancy car to some people who have the means to get that from you while sleeping? What if I craft a good scam by targeting you with your own data?

It's not about data is sent to where, it's about what happens when it arrives to the physical servers, who has access to these files, and what can they do with it.

When I visited the states, I got EZ-Pass spam/scam e-mails for a year, on an e-mail I gave to nobody when I was there. So, these laws matter.

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#310

Post by blackeyeblitzar »

StrLght wrote: post #212
kmlx wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this take is naive. building alternatives takes time and resources. the EU has neither. a diverse, competitive tech ecosystem with both EU and non-EU players is better than a protectionist approach. hoping for an exodus of major global players when you’re leapfrogged by both China and the US…

What makes you think there are no alternatives to Uber in EU right now? Actually, it's the opposite: * ride hailing alternatives: FreeNow, Bolt * food delivery: Wolt (technically owned by DoorDash, but still), Just Eat, Bolt Food * bikes / scooters: Tier, Bolt, NextBike, Voi, and many others If Uber leaves, there won't be any void to fill.

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