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The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

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Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#301

Post by josteink »

spiralpolitik wrote: post #208
robert_nsu wrote: post #61

As long as other OEMs and other industry leaders don't follow Apple's lead on this, I'm fine. I won't need a retina display in the near future unless Visual Studio or vim suddenly require it. (and I really don't see that happpening -ever)

Given that Apple for the most part is the other PC manufacturers R+D arm I would expect most of the other OEMs to follow this move over the next 2-3 years.

I'm sorry, but you'll need to back up that claim with some sources. It absolutely does not stand on its own.

The only example I can think of would be the Macbook Air and how it has inspired the rest of the industry to make more lightweight laptops.

Apart from that, I cannot see a single thing Apple has done which the industry has followed on, mostly hardware-vise, for their PCs, Apple has done almost zero innovation. There would be nothing to follow.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#302

Post by toemetoch »

Since when is a soldering iron high tech? Since when can't you solder SMD chips due to the small pitch? They're not BGA, so you can solder them, even with that pitch.

Dear HN "hackers". Removing and adding RAM from a fool-proof socket that is found on most motherboards isn't hacking. Figuring out pincompatibility, configuration and (de)soldering SMD chips: that's hacking.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#303

Post by Hoff »

Increased integration has been the goal of most everybody involved in designing and building computers, since before transistors were formed into integrated circuits.

At the same time, a goal of less necessary maintenance, too.

Vacuum tubes (valves) are gone.

Connectors and moving parts are removed.

The field-replaceable units (FRUs) get larger and larger, and whole peripheral units get swapped where that's possible.

It used to be that you swapped a head-disk assembly within a disk drive. That you had periodic maintenance visits to clean or replace the air filters on your servers and clean out the dust bunnies and dust rhinos. That you isolated to the board and repaired it, or used a wire-wrap tool to fix a loose wire on the backplane. That you unscrewed and swapped a switch. That you modified configuration switches to re-address I/O cards.

This trend is all part of what was once known as solid-state electronics. Where a designer looks to remove the "stuff" that fails and that takes up space and time and manufacturing effort, that requires stocking more SKUs in manufacturing, whether that's connectors or CRTs or disk drives or daughter-cards or whatever. And you work to remove the humans from the repair and maintenance process where you can, as that's a source of problems, and costs.

And yes, the hobbyist and enthusiast market has different goals and designs than the mass market. If you're looking to tweak and incremental upgrades (short of swapping FRUs), then you probably won't be buying a MacBook Pro Retina.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#304

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

mikeash wrote: post #269
2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy it. The traditional cycle, if Apple had a new technology first, is Apple releases it, wait a year and everybody else can do it just as well and probably cheaper. You can get Android handsets whose specs are better than the iPhone 4 in every way except the screen. If a manufacturer could out do the iPhone 4, iPad or MBP screen, they would have. Especially since they are traditionally spec driven.

There are Android phones with screen resolutions equal or superior to that of the iPhone. They may not do as well in less concrete terms like overall quality, but when it comes to common specs with numbers on them, you can do better on Android.

gareim suggested the HTC Rezound and Xperia S below. You're right.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#305

Post by charlieok »

archgrove wrote: post #7

The argument doesn't really hold up, as we're only given two choices: Upgradable, or amazing screen. If there was a third, "Upgradable and amazing screen" with the applicable price/weight tradeoffs, then the "we can choose" view would be more tenable. Regardless, the lack of upgradability isn't something that bugs me. My last two Apple laptops were "upgradable", but all I ever did was throw some RAM in there. The sub…

What won't be good for years is the battery...

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#306

Post by driverdan »

jsz0 wrote: post #164
generalk wrote: post #57

I'm on the fence. On the one hand, the new MBP is a fantastic machine and if I pay the premium for the 16GB of RAM, I'm probably going to be set for years. That said, I'm currently running the original Late 2008 Unibody Macbook Pro. It's survived for four years because I've been able to, over time, upgrade the RAM, replace the spinning disk with an SSD, and replace the aging battery. SSDs weren't available when I pur…

Upgrade-by-replacement. In 2 years you'll still be able to sell this machine for about 70% of its original price. From there you can buy the latest & greatest model at basically a 70% discount. Factor in the price of the parts you would have upgraded and I bet it's a wash or pretty close to it.

Where do you get the 70% figure from?

I bought my 2010 MBP almost exactly 2 years ago for $2700 + ~$300 for an SSD + drive enclosure. Today I'd be lucky to sell it for $1500 considering you can get a 2011 MBP refurb for that price.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#307

Post by makomk »

georgespencer wrote: post #45
dododo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that doesn't sound like such a great innovation from an environmental point of view. nor a sustainable use of resources. is it easy to re-use parts from these failed devices?

For a while now Apple has operated a recycling programme which allows users to take their unwanted devices into their store and recycle them (usually incentivised with a discount a replacement device). (I don't buy the anecdotal "Nobody can recycle aluminium with glass pressed into it" line from the article.)

It's entirely believable that no-one can recycle aluminium and glass that are glued together in an economically viable way. Apparently one of the major things that dictates how easy something is to recycle is how easy it is to seperate components that are made of different materials.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#308

Post by spiralpolitik »

josteink wrote: post #301
spiralpolitik wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that Apple for the most part is the other PC manufacturers R+D arm I would expect most of the other OEMs to follow this move over the next 2-3 years.

I'm sorry, but you'll need to back up that claim with some sources. It absolutely does not stand on its own. The only example I can think of would be the Macbook Air and how it has inspired the rest of the industry to make more lightweight laptops. Apart from that, I cannot see a single thing Apple has done which the industry has followed on, mostly hardware-vise, for their PCs, Apple has done almost zero innovation.…

Among others:

- Ditching the floppy disk drive on the original iMac G3.

- Switching to all USB instead of a mix of serial and parallel ports.

- The one piece case design of the late 2008 Macbook Pro as now mimicked by half of HPs laptop range.

And that's just the easy ones.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#309

Post by samstave »

MartinCron wrote: post #179
pasbesoin wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off the top of my head (and so, perhaps wrong), I seem to recall the amount Apple is charging for going from 8 GB to 16 GB to be on the order of US$200. [1] For RAM that they are purchasing and installing in volume. That's a lot of net profit into their pocket, for each unit. And that's where I have one particular concern: Apple closing down and engorging itself on yet another market segment (upgrades). You can argue…

That's a lot of net profit into their pocket, for each unit. You should never price things based solely on how much the inputs cost. If people are willing to pay huge premiums for incremental RAM upgrades, Apple will gladly let them.

Willing is not the same as having no other choice.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#310

Post by spiralpolitik »

falling wrote: post #191
swah wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The economics of replacing an entire device are finally starting to make sense How do they come off as sustainable and cool when their are responsible for all this trash production?

> How do they come off as sustainable and cool when their are responsible for all this trash production? How do they come off as sustainable and cool when Greenpeace was protesting in front of Infinite Loop a month ago?

Greenpeace protesting outside of Apple is front page headlines.

Greenpeace protesting outside of is page 5 at best.

When you want to make the 6pm news you go after the guys that gives you the most publicity, rather than the guys that are worse offenders.

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