New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#301

Post by subsection1h » Thu, Jun 14, 2012, 12:25 AM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #268

Spooky23 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't level a slur at you, and as I said, I don't think that you're an idiot. Just wealthy. Before, you had the ability to go to the Apple store or website and have them "take care of" your memory woes at point of purchase. They charge like $500 for an $100 memory stick. Most people call paying 5x more for a commodity product "a ripoff".

> They charge like $500 for an $100 memory stick. That's definitely the case historically, but you may want to look at this one case right there: 16GB RAM upgrade on the new MBP is $200. 2x8GB SODIMM at crucial is $150. I'm not exactly going to shit my pants over a minor $50 (and 30% of the base part) markup when buying a $2200 kit.

    16GB RAM upgrade on the new MBP is $200.
    2x8GB SODIMM at crucial is $150.

Once again, can someone please explain to me why Apple apologists are generally incapable of using a price comparison service that requires maybe 10 seconds to use? Their behavior never ceases to baffle me.

CORSAIR 16GB for MacBook Pro - $89.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233...

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#302

Post by tl » Thu, Jun 14, 2012, 12:26 AM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #267

super_mario wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am heavily invested in Apple for the record. I use everything from Mac Pro, iMac (all versions), all of their MBPs (no airs), iPhones, iPads etc. I have invested over $30k in their hardware, so that gives me some right to criticize their direction. All of the computers have been updated post purchase. I've put more RAM into iMacs, more RAM and SSDs into MBPs, and Mac Pros got more RAM, video cards, SSDs, HDDs etc.…

> In fact, one of the very first things I do is buy more RAM for my MBPs because it is more economical to do it yourself. While that is historically true, it's not really the case for the new MBP: the 16GB RAM update costs $200, 2x8GB sticks cost ~150 at crucial. Meh. > Then if you wait 2 years, you can again double your RAM for extremely low price. Unless the chipset is at its physical limits, which is usually the c…

>While that is historically true, it's not really the case for the new MBP: the 16GB RAM update costs $200, 2x8GB sticks cost ~150 at crucial. Meh.

2x8GB is ~$150. 2x4GB is ~$50[1].

Apple is charging $200 for a $100 bump in component costs. 100% markup is excessive.

[1] http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233...

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#303

Post by whateverer » Thu, Jun 14, 2012, 12:42 AM UTC

omgsean wrote: post #290

super_mario wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Apple gets their way, typing text and compiling it to code and running it on your appliance will become illegal. How often do you run custom code on your other appliances? Exactly. There will simply be no expectation of running custom code on a "computer" once it is turned into an appliance. Look at iPad. It's more powerful than PCs of the 90s yet no one even expects to run their custom code on it. This is where M…

It won't even matter by then because the Illuminati will have already started the New World Order and we'll all be in secret FEMA camps.

"Most users never program their computers themselves. Anyone can plainly see the historical trend from the late 80s onward that the average user has no interest in the internals of their computers or in investing time in automation which experts can do for them.

I support Apple 100% in moving forward and removing the option of running, or producing, unreliable homebrewed code without authorization.

Actual programming experts can get a Mac Pro with and their programming license from Apple, or just run Linux on a PC."

Yes, I certainly trust that we won't be seeing posts like the above in the eventuality that Apple puts further restrictions on their (customer's) computers.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#304

Post by pi18n » Thu, Jun 14, 2012, 4:00 AM UTC

idspispopd wrote: post #182

JackC wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing. This is true. I for one do all my computing with a goofy grin on my face, while riding a unicycle. In all seriousness, this product will be perfect for me. The lower weight will help with my unicycling, and the 4-core i7 will look great with my butterfly wings.

You're having an argument with a bunch of InstantExperts™ who are clearly motivated by other sources or tied to luddite ideologies. They're more interested in presenting Apple as an evil empire because this fits their personal objectives. Since the overwhelming bulk of computer users(including pro users) have no interest in fiddling with their computer specs post purchase, Apple are simply making a product that fits…

I think their arguments are wrongheaded also. But please note that this design also excludes a lot of independent repairmen. Which seems fine while you are under warranty, but if you have an old computer do you want one company to dictate the price of repairs? Or even whether they will repair it or not?

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#305

Post by cmsj » Thu, Jun 14, 2012, 6:00 AM UTC

tl wrote: post #302

masklinn wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In fact, one of the very first things I do is buy more RAM for my MBPs because it is more economical to do it yourself. While that is historically true, it's not really the case for the new MBP: the 16GB RAM update costs $200, 2x8GB sticks cost ~150 at crucial. Meh. > Then if you wait 2 years, you can again double your RAM for extremely low price. Unless the chipset is at its physical limits, which is usually the c…

>While that is historically true, it's not really the case for the new MBP: the 16GB RAM update costs $200, 2x8GB sticks cost ~150 at crucial. Meh. 2x8GB is ~$150. 2x4GB is ~$50[1]. Apple is charging $200 for a $100 bump in component costs. 100% markup is excessive. [1] http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233...

Note that while their margin on RAM is high, ther average margin across all products is, afair, over 40%

We nerds need to accept that we ate not apple's focus anymore. Just spec your machine high, pony up lots of money, enjoy the shit out of it.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#306

Post by cmsj » Thu, Jun 14, 2012, 6:01 AM UTC

gouranga wrote: post #84

Sorry but you have got to be a fucking idiot to buy one to be honest if that is the case. Apple are making an attempt to turn generic computers into disposable appliances with moves like these. I would never accept a compromise like that with a computer that I owned. My rationale is as follows: If I pay £1800 for one of those machines, I expect to be able to repair common problems easily. That's a lot of money sittin…

So buy the classic MacBook design while it's still available. Easy :)

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#307

Post by sokoloff » Thu, Jun 14, 2012, 8:55 AM UTC

mironathetin wrote: post #234

super_mario wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mathematician and software developer here (and the guy you are responding to) and ALL my personal computers are Macs too. I criticize Apple's direction because I sincerely do not think it is good for the future of general purpose computing. The software you write for your scientific computing might become "illegal" if Apple gets it their way, and you will first have to pay Apple a cut before you can run it, or it may…

I agree with you completely. I don't like the direction of Apples development either. But then, I know how much time a linux notebook consumes. I still did not manage to play back my rsync'ed backup in a way that the machine boots. That (and related stuff) is what I mean when I write ( a bit further down) that there is no real operating system for a Thinkpad. Pity. In a way, apple goes the same way that car manufactu…

I know first-hand that Mercedes are quite user-serviceable, as I do most all of the service (ex-tire replacement, ex-exhaust) on all our cars.

Factory basic service information is not only easily available, it's free (at least in the US: they make you provide a US CC every 365 days for online access, so it might be MB-USA funding it, but the card is not charged). Parts are readily available aftermarket, from OE and non-OE suppliers. There's also several well-respected third party shops within a few miles of here.

I don't drive a BMW, but I know of two excellent (but not cheap) third party shops nearby.

Yes, some systems are computer-augmented for service, and require a beyond-OBD2 level of software, but that software is available (and a couple thousand dollars, a lot for an individual, but nothing compared to the rest of the tools a shop has to have).

I am quite happy with the supportability MB provides, and probably wouldn't drive one if your statement above matched my experience.

Side note: it's a pleasure to work on MB: very few "one time" fasteners (like those plastic Christmas tree push things, or ridiculously fragile/undersized plastic latches). Thing that you need to take apart are designed to be taken apart and put back together many times without damage or leaving ill-fitting parts afterward. You really notice the difference when servicing someone else's other brand, price-optimized car.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#308

Post by masklinn » Thu, Jun 14, 2012, 9:58 AM UTC

excuse-me wrote: post #279

masklinn wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it any more of a "disposable gadget" than the previous generation which has all the same soldered components but the RAM, exactly? My current machine got its RAM upgraded once, the day I bought it, and will never see an other RAM upgrade in its life because I'm at the chipset's capacity. It's in the exact same position as the new mbp. Has it suddenly become a "disposable computer gadget" where it was an "expen…

According to the post you can't replace the drive or the battery either.

The post says nothing about drive or battery, the iFixit teardown does confirm the battery can't be replaced (it's now glued in — where the old one was screwed to the case — the teardown guys didn't dare removing it after trying a bit) so there's that.

On the other hand, the SSD is most definitely replaceable, it's the same system as in the Macbook Air (though apparently not the exact same drive): http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Pro-with-Retina-Displ...

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#309

Post by mironathetin » Thu, Jun 14, 2012, 10:22 AM UTC

freyrs3 wrote: post #285

mironathetin wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What would constitute a real operating system? " If you want to know my most important point: backup and play back (bootable) EASILY.

How is that even a function of the operating system?

"How is that even a function of the operating system?"

My statement was provocative, I guess. This is like a Harley driver asking if a Yamaha is a real Motorcycle (is it?).

Backup is not a function of the operating system, but the key question is whether software is available FOR the operating system. Could be even an issue of bios, but who cares except theorists?

You always buy a package.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#310

Post by mironathetin » Thu, Jun 14, 2012, 10:35 AM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #307

mironathetin wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you completely. I don't like the direction of Apples development either. But then, I know how much time a linux notebook consumes. I still did not manage to play back my rsync'ed backup in a way that the machine boots. That (and related stuff) is what I mean when I write ( a bit further down) that there is no real operating system for a Thinkpad. Pity. In a way, apple goes the same way that car manufactu…

I know first-hand that Mercedes are quite user-serviceable, as I do most all of the service (ex-tire replacement, ex-exhaust) on all our cars. Factory basic service information is not only easily available, it's free (at least in the US: they make you provide a US CC every 365 days for online access, so it might be MB-USA funding it, but the card is not charged). Parts are readily available aftermarket, from OE and n…

Good for you that you can do it yourself. We don't have the time to do that and we rely on good workshops. Here in germany non-contract workshops cannot get access to the necessary tools and software. They could hack it, but thats against the law! Most mechanics also lack the abilities to handle analysis software.

As a bottom line, workshops that can service cars with new production date vanish.

What you say is indeed the solution that came into my mind: buy a cool oldtimer (I especially like the Porsche 911 from the late 70s/early 80s) and buy a new house with a large garage. Tools are available already.