Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Panic at the Job Market

matt.sh

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 1001 posts

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#301

Post by rafaelmn »

bmitc wrote: post #249
evrimoztamur wrote: post #23

I will add my two cents for people who believe that this might be related only to the SWE and tangent industries: It's really not. I have many friends (in Europe) who are trying to get through to different jobs in unrelated industries ranging from finance to fashion, or just trying to get promoted vertically (or horizontally), failing rather miserably. Most jobs are now hoops after hoops, not taking into consideratio…

> Most jobs are now hoops after hoops, not taking into consideration your particular profile or the contributions you can make. This is really key. I have applied for jobs before, and then get questions like: "what's your experience with C++ or advanced graph algorithms?". Only that, none of that shows up in my profile or resume. But they act surprised and completely shrug off how a decade of software and other relev…

> As in, a person who has used and learned a dozen plus languages but only tacitly used C++ suddenly will be a complete invalid when trying to write in C++?

I've switched at least 5 languages professionally and used probably 5 more for extended periods of time and wrote a decent chunk of C++ "back in the day". I'd say C++ is the least suitable for "learn on the job" approach out of any language I can think of (I'm lumping C in there) - soo many footguns all over the place and very little to guide you to the right path.

They are at fault for even starting the conversation without making it obvious is a hard requirement.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#302

Post by ivanech »

titanomachy wrote: post #218
ivanech wrote: post #57

I found all the napkin math in this befuddling. I’m not sure where these “per day” benchmarks are coming from -— is this supposed to be executive pay or mid-level/senior engineer pay? Because $5k - $10k / day works out to $1m - $3m / yr (depending on if you use 200 working days / yr or just 365). Which, yes, happens (esp with good year of stock appreciation) but is not as common as the prose makes it seem. Also these…

He mentioned he has 20+ years of experience, so I think he is in fact comparing to VP-level roles. Most people I’ve met at faang who are over 40 are in fact seniorstaff+ or director+, so it’s not as insane as it seems on first blush, although I think to reach his numbers you’d have to factor in stock appreciation as well. I also think far more people leave faang altogether than reach VP level.

I think you’re right, I see that his resume links to Distinguished Engineer roles at Google / Amazon. Which … I don’t know. At my FAANG-adjacent company, there have only ever been _low_ single-digit number of ICs at that level. We’re talking 0.1-0.3% of all engineers. And they had insane track records.

And FWIW I think that there’s at least an order of magnitude more “happy L5s” older than 40 at FAANGs than senior staff+

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#303

Post by bmitc »

klyrs wrote: post #287
bmitc wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most jobs are now hoops after hoops, not taking into consideration your particular profile or the contributions you can make. This is really key. I have applied for jobs before, and then get questions like: "what's your experience with C++ or advanced graph algorithms?". Only that, none of that shows up in my profile or resume. But they act surprised and completely shrug off how a decade of software and other relev…

As a literal graph theorist, I cannot tell you how frustrating it is that (a) nobody seems to understand my work except (b) interviewers use it as a shibboleth to exclude people from jobs that will never need high performance graph algorithms. That, I never get called for these interviews because I don't use react angles or something, but if they did, I'd crush the interview and fall asleep at my desk once they start…

In general, people are completely uninterested in experience that they don't understand, I've found. They don't want to even ask about it because it would showcase that they, gasp, don't know something that you do.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#304

Post by munificent »

I didn't read the article but if I'm looking at the initial graph right, it looks like software engineering job postings are higher today than they were before the pandemic. Obviously, they were higher during the pandemic, but that was a blip. It seems that after that, they're still in a better state then they were before.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#305

Post by rconti »

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #125
evrimoztamur wrote: post #23

I will add my two cents for people who believe that this might be related only to the SWE and tangent industries: It's really not. I have many friends (in Europe) who are trying to get through to different jobs in unrelated industries ranging from finance to fashion, or just trying to get promoted vertically (or horizontally), failing rather miserably. Most jobs are now hoops after hoops, not taking into consideratio…

All of his analysis about financial markets, can apply to all jobs, all hiring. Don't think he explicitly states that, but all hiring is down. Or at least all entry positions it seems like. From a SWE perspective. Doesn't it seem like systems are falling apart? You can only cut back programmer/tech jobs for so long, someone has to know how it all works. This is what I don't get, all around me, people don't know how t…

https://www.stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks

I'll add: Generally, everything works just as well as it needs to, and no better.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#307

Post by yoelhacks »

not_wyoming wrote: post #171
mavamaarten wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never understood why people hate them so much. From the employer side of things it only makes sense to get a feeling for someone's abilities other than an impression based on words alone. You can't believe the amount of shit solutions we've gotten from candidates. We just let you make a very simple kata. A tiny program that generates some console output, you have to refactor it to make it prettier and you need t…

> From the employer side of things it only makes sense to get a feeling for someone's abilities other than an impression based on words alone. I'd like to believe this is true, but it fails to explain why candidates for other business functions don't receive the same scrutiny. I'm not aware of analogous evaluations to get hired to other business roles (e.g. marketer candidates aren't asked to demonstrate a working kn…

At companies I've been at (mostly earlier phase startups, YMMV) there has always been an effort to do some sort of technical vetting.

Designers need to present designs / their portfolio.

Sales people need to do a demo.

Product people need to put together a mock roadmap or pitch a feature.

And so on.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#308

Post by bmitc »

rafaelmn wrote: post #301
bmitc wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most jobs are now hoops after hoops, not taking into consideration your particular profile or the contributions you can make. This is really key. I have applied for jobs before, and then get questions like: "what's your experience with C++ or advanced graph algorithms?". Only that, none of that shows up in my profile or resume. But they act surprised and completely shrug off how a decade of software and other relev…

> As in, a person who has used and learned a dozen plus languages but only tacitly used C++ suddenly will be a complete invalid when trying to write in C++? I've switched at least 5 languages professionally and used probably 5 more for extended periods of time and wrote a decent chunk of C++ "back in the day". I'd say C++ is the least suitable for "learn on the job" approach out of any language I can think of (I'm lu…

I generally agree with you, but I think it depends on the team. If the team is just "using" C++ but aren't good software developers, then yea, I totally agree that having a non-C++ expert join the team is going to be a rough ride for everyone. But if the team's software architecture and coding practices are solid, which probably means they use a subset of C++'s vast feature set in a very clear way, then one probably could jump in just fine.

In a way, them only accepting in C++ experts probably means they're either doing something actually very complex with regards to C++ itself or their code quality is a shitstorm.

> They are at fault for even starting the conversation without making it an obvious deal breaker.

That is definitely my feeling. My resume is quite clear about my experience and tools.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#309

Post by golergka »

Aurornis wrote: post #294
evrimoztamur wrote: post #23

I will add my two cents for people who believe that this might be related only to the SWE and tangent industries: It's really not. I have many friends (in Europe) who are trying to get through to different jobs in unrelated industries ranging from finance to fashion, or just trying to get promoted vertically (or horizontally), failing rather miserably. Most jobs are now hoops after hoops, not taking into consideratio…

> Most jobs are now hoops after hoops, not taking into consideration your particular profile or the contributions you can make. I’ve done some mentoring of CS grads for the past few years. We some times get people with unreasonable interview demands, like companies asking them to make an entire app or website for the interview process. We advise them to decline the really excessive ones. However, it’s rare to see tha…

I love long takehomes. They're like pet projects, but with clearly defined goals and with people that might even give you a review if you're lucky. I always use them to try a new library or a framework, and often continue improving on them even after they're submitted and evaluated.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#310

Post by funemployd »

Aurornis wrote: post #294
evrimoztamur wrote: post #23

I will add my two cents for people who believe that this might be related only to the SWE and tangent industries: It's really not. I have many friends (in Europe) who are trying to get through to different jobs in unrelated industries ranging from finance to fashion, or just trying to get promoted vertically (or horizontally), failing rather miserably. Most jobs are now hoops after hoops, not taking into consideratio…

> Most jobs are now hoops after hoops, not taking into consideration your particular profile or the contributions you can make. I’ve done some mentoring of CS grads for the past few years. We some times get people with unreasonable interview demands, like companies asking them to make an entire app or website for the interview process. We advise them to decline the really excessive ones. However, it’s rare to see tha…

4-5 hours... per job. Do you think most people apply to a single job and just get it?
Post reply on HN