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Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

cnn.com

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Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#301

Post by yownie »

hedora wrote: post #142
gunapologist99 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Plus the Federal budget is essentially free money, constructed as needed It's amusing and a bit scary that someone thinks the federal budget is essentially free money, constructed as needed.

The US dollar literally is constructed as needed. It's pretty darn close to free thanks to electronic banking. However, like all magic, using it has severe (and generally predictable) consequences. Unlike fictional magic, the consequences take 4 years to kick in like clockwork. That, and the US's two term limit meant that presidents get to print money without political consequence. Worst case, they lose the midterms,…

jfc you're like the spiritual avatar of /r/confidentiallyincorrect.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#302

Post by m463 »

hedora wrote: post #71
blantonl wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wasn't a "grid issue." It is a last-mile issue. It's specifically an issue with the sheer amount of above ground power lines and population density. There is no easy fix, preparation, or practically anything else that can be done to prevent something like this. Plus, what causes the same amount of power outages (wind damage) isn't going to be different between 90mph winds and 150 mph winds. The effects are going…

I disagree, and I speak from experience. We've been repeatedly hit by climate-change induced typhoons here (near the SF Bay Area), and hurricane-force gusts hit both of the last two years. Our area looses a lot of roads to mudslides, and of course we have extended power outages. Having said that, the first year, PG&E only delivered one nine of availability last year, and this year, they're closer to two nines. The di…

Can they bury power lines in houston? I thought the water table was pretty close to the surface.

(if you want a swimming pool, dig a hole!)

EDIT: ok I looked

it seems there are two kinds of lines - transmission lines and distribution lines.

Distribution lines can be buried, but it might not be good in hurricane prone areas that are prone to flooding.

transmission lines are hard/expensive to bury, since the insulation requirements are technically challenging.

The hurricane seems to have taken out some large transmission lines in addition to distribution lines.

I wonder if maybe redundant lines might be cheaper than buried lines?

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#303

Post by Falkon1313 »

ndr42 wrote: post #163
wannacboatmovie wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that the vast ghettoes and low-income areas in Houston all install solar panels and Tesla Powerwalls? Many people in hardest-hit areas struggle paycheck to paycheck- if they're working at all.

No I do not. I was not aware of the vast ghettoes. But some kind of middle class has to exist as the article headline talks about air conditioning - in Germany air conditioning is not common even in the upper middle class - this may be different in the US - idk.

Germany is way farther north though. Houston is further south than Israel, about the same latitude as Kuwait City and the Sahara Desert. The temperature averages 20-30°F warmer than Berlin (33-40°C), or put another way, Berlin's record high temperatures are a typical day in Houston. Also very humid since it's right near the ocean. Comparison charts:https://weatherspark.com/compare/y/9247~75981/Comparison-of-...

So yes, air conditioning is very common there, even if you're poor that's one thing you will try to find a way to get.

In the ghettos it's normally an old window unit, not central AC. Also shotgun shacks, which are houses setup with a straight-through floorplan so that if you open the front and back doors the whole thing becomes kind of a wind tunnel. Not as good as AC, but better than nothing.

In those neighborhoods, you'll also often see people (especially elderly and children) hanging out at the neighborhood church or mom and pop store, where there is air conditioning, if they don't have AC or it isn't working.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#304

Post by dehrmann »

nxm wrote: post #283
namesbc wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is the lack of regulation that is the problem here. The power company is incentized to make higher profits year around by not preparing for a disaster.

PG & E is "heavily regulated" and yet Newsome allowed them to not upgrade power lines which eventually caused massive wild fires

The fact that PG&E, in a much more regulated and liberal California, also has power problems is interesting and valid, but Newsom's only been governor since 2019 (the Camp Fire was 2018), so you can't put that much blame on him, and there are decades of blame to go around.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#305

Post by sangnoir »

akira2501 wrote: post #187
KingOfCoders wrote: post #36

Germany has overengineered and expensive utilities, but I'm happy sometimes that all power and telephone lines are underground.

The water table in Germany and the water table in Texas are two different things. Notably, the city is right next to a giant body of salty ocean water, which is why they get hurricanes in the first place, but it also severely complicates the process of creating underground utilities.

This argument would be more convincing if Houston didn't have any underground infrastructure.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#306

Post by fellowniusmonk »

BenjiWiebe wrote: post #286
jmward01 wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We live in a society and preparing as a group means that we can efficiently use resources and focus our energy on things that are interesting instead of everyone being overly prepared. Everyone going out and buying a generator is expensive, wasteful and incredibly inefficient. Why isn't it reasonable to just expect reliable infrastructure and quick responses to issues?

Maybe it's unreasonable to expect reliable infrastructure after getting many examples of how the infrastructure is not reliable. You and I are highly unlikely to be able to fix the infrastructure; we can, however, be prepared for doing without it.

Due to occasional failures we should now throw our hands up and label systemic undercutting, and poor governance as unfixable.

Because things are bad sometimes let's excuse unlimited incompetence when expected situations are ignored and cause inevitable catastrophic failure.

Sometimes plans fail so let's excuse failure to plan.

When a huge storm blows through with minimal fuss because preparation and regulation was taken seriously let's downplay the risk and deregulate and dismantle safety apperatus as they are clearly unneeded....

It goes on and on... why did we hire these security guys we never have breaches, why did we hire these sys and network admins everything always works, why do we have all these pesky earthquake codes no buildings have fallen recently...

After nearly 40 years I still can't understand the mental gymnastics required to be so obdurate. It's just nihilistic slash and burn thinking isn't it.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#307

Post by jmward01 »

BenjiWiebe wrote: post #286
jmward01 wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We live in a society and preparing as a group means that we can efficiently use resources and focus our energy on things that are interesting instead of everyone being overly prepared. Everyone going out and buying a generator is expensive, wasteful and incredibly inefficient. Why isn't it reasonable to just expect reliable infrastructure and quick responses to issues?

Maybe it's unreasonable to expect reliable infrastructure after getting many examples of how the infrastructure is not reliable. You and I are highly unlikely to be able to fix the infrastructure; we can, however, be prepared for doing without it.

I think it is better to put that energy into improving things and building a better future for everyone. As a country it feels like we have forgotten that we can work together to do big things. I still think we can.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#308

Post by alexk307 »

ifyoubuildit wrote: post #262
alexk307 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are climate-change induced typhoons? How are those quantified?

I also wondered this. How do you tell the difference between a climate change induced typhoon and the alternative? Maybe its obvious to the down voters, but you have at least two people here you could potentially teach something to.

You don't - that's the point.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#309

Post by jncfhnb »

fragmede wrote: post #228
jncfhnb wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per person per month for 10 years is a ridiculous unit to choose. Europe benefits from being very dense. The US grid is way more spread out. Undergrounding costs are around $1M per mile. The US has millions of miles of lines.

I get that America is big, but the amortized per-person cost is what's relevant. If something costs $10 M per mile, but there are a million people per mile, suddenly that's not all that expensive. I'd pay more than $10 to not have my power go out for a week after a big storm that's likely to happen again in a few weeks and next year and the year after. A backup generator costs way more than $10.

The amortized per person cost is obviously not going to be constant when the demographic density and line mileage changes. That’s why it’s a foolish standard

There’s NEVER 1M customers per mile in a distribution system. There’s only going to be a few thousand per substation. Half of the line miles will have customer counts in the tens or ones.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#310

Post by jncfhnb »

xboxnolifes wrote: post #212
jncfhnb wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per person per month for 10 years is a ridiculous unit to choose. Europe benefits from being very dense. The US grid is way more spread out. Undergrounding costs are around $1M per mile. The US has millions of miles of lines.

Look at the numbers and it's not so crazy. This is a last mile issue, not a full grid issue.

I’m only including distribution numbers in my figures here. Transmission does not make sense to underground.
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