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Girls in Tech closes its doors after 17 years

venturebeat.com

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Re: Girls in Tech closes its doors after 17 years

#301

Post by Jensson »

pas wrote: post #298
jimbokun wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More money. Smaller companies can't compete with FAANG salaries. So when FAANG prioritizes hiring women, and there are still many fewer women than men in tech overall, smaller and poorer companies can't compete with the offers women are getting from FAANG.

... sure, on the other hand way less competition, and smaller companies can also simply go ahead hire promising juniors and do on the job training.

> and smaller companies can also simply go ahead hire promising juniors and do on the job training.

Not before FAANG hired the promising juniors first, FAANG are very willing to give on the job training. Or at least were a couple of years ago.

Re: Girls in Tech closes its doors after 17 years

#302

Post by jimbokun »

elric wrote: post #285
jimbokun wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> you seem to have very little curiosity into WHY those ratios are so skewed That's a weird take. How would you know what I'm curious about? Pardon the strawman, but I'm not interested in handwavy explanations which tend to border on bigotry ("$category simply isn't interested in $topic"). I suspect the fundamental reasons are myriad and complex, but that doesn't mean $field wouldn't benefit from more diversity. > It…

> ("$category simply isn't interested in $topic").

First link that came up in my Google search:

https://www.psypost.org/women-like-working-with-people-men-l...

It is almost certain that differences in interest play a large role in the different distributions of men and women in different occupations. The studies showing this are well known and I have not seen them debunked.

Please note that labelling a claim with strong backing in empirical evidence "bigotry" does not magically change reality to conform with what you would like it to be. You need to produce actual evidence to the contrary.

Re: Girls in Tech closes its doors after 17 years

#303

Post by commandlinefan »

lins1909 wrote: post #227
Jensson wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think affirmative action has anything to do with that? Affirmative action means you and everyone else there knows you had to pass a lower bar, of course that makes impostor syndrome worse.

> Affirmative action means you and everyone else there knows you had to pass a lower bar, of course that makes impostor syndrome worse. No, it doesn't. But if that makes you feel better, I hope you continue telling yourself that.

Wait, what? That's literally the definition.

Re: Girls in Tech closes its doors after 17 years

#304

Post by lyu07282 »

_dzsv wrote: post #268
petsfed wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the perception of engineering as a "men's field" factors into that. Like "every engineering role I've ever had, I was condescended to by some other engineer who though he knew more than me because he was a man, maybe the culture is different around 'designer'". Likewise for "technologist". More broadly, it seems to me that a lot of engineers' perception of inequity within their field basically devolves to…

>I was condescended to by some other engineer who though he knew more than me because he was a man In my experience this isn't "because he was a man" but because he was an engineer. And from what I've seen it also has nothing to do with you being a woman. Engineers tend to be condensing, and will do so indiscriminately. Or said different being "condescended to by some other engineer" means they are treating you equal…

I think your comment is a good demonstration why this is still such an issue, despite the overwhelming evidence of gender based discrimination in tech, people are dismissing the experiences of the majority of women in tech. Can't really improve if people are still in denial about it.

I don't know what to do, you can't teach people empathy or not to be sexist. Given how weirdly conservative young people are nowadays I don't see it getting much better in the future either.

Re: Girls in Tech closes its doors after 17 years

#305

Post by arduanika »

shmatt wrote: post #172
csande17 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, Girls Who Code -- an organization more directly focused on improving the "pipeline" through training programs aimed at K-12 and college students -- seems to be thriving, with over $20M in donations from a variety of tech organizations in 2023: https://girlswhocode.com/2023report/

this deserves to be much higher than a sub-sub-sub-sub comment the fact one DEI organization failed doesn't mean DEI failed. They could be mis managed just like any other non profit

Agreed, I didn't know the difference and at a glance thought it was Girls Who Code that folded.

It could be that as the "vibe shifts" away from DEI and the funding gets smaller, we'll see a culling where only some orgs survive, hopefully the best ones. "When the tide goes out..."

Re: Girls in Tech closes its doors after 17 years

#306

Post by lyu07282 »

petsfed wrote: post #239
Jensson wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and encouraged to move into less prestigious roles like product, design, etc Women tend to seek out such roles all on their own, there is no encouragement needed. Just adding "design" to a job title massively increases how many women applies, even if the job itself is unchanged. Just rebrand software engineers to software designers and suddenly you get many women, even though they do the same thing.

I wonder if the perception of engineering as a "men's field" factors into that. Like "every engineering role I've ever had, I was condescended to by some other engineer who though he knew more than me because he was a man, maybe the culture is different around 'designer'". Likewise for "technologist". More broadly, it seems to me that a lot of engineers' perception of inequity within their field basically devolves to…

> stereotypically was subject to a lot of bullying as young people

There is actually evidence [1] that suggests that victims of bullying often develop long term psychological issues / depression, and depression leads to a lack of empathy.

[1] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/254192616

Re: Girls in Tech closes its doors after 17 years

#309

Post by ilickpoolalgae »

thatsnotreally wrote: post #254
ilickpoolalgae wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general, the compensation is much less than engineers at the same level but the potential for career growth beyond senior is much easier.

I would agree on the junior side of things. There is a higher threshold for the starting line for engineers, but for higher levels, design is by no means seen as a less prestigious role. Not in any sense of the word. For salaries – see e.g. levels.fyi for quick comparison. Even Google – a company not really known for valuing design that highly: SWE L6 avg. = 520K USD. Product Designer L6 avg. = 515K USD.

Yeah no argument on prestigious, just noting the comp differences.

Re: Girls in Tech closes its doors after 17 years

#310

Post by Jensson »

elric wrote: post #285
jimbokun wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> you seem to have very little curiosity into WHY those ratios are so skewed That's a weird take. How would you know what I'm curious about? Pardon the strawman, but I'm not interested in handwavy explanations which tend to border on bigotry ("$category simply isn't interested in $topic"). I suspect the fundamental reasons are myriad and complex, but that doesn't mean $field wouldn't benefit from more diversity. > It…

> The ratio is certainly a lot less skewed now than when I was a student over 20 years ago

You mean more skewed? The data shows there are less women now than 20 years ago. There is a lot more talk about women in tech today, but that doesn't mean there are more.

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