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Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

theguardian.com

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Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

#301

Post by e38383 »

uclibc wrote: post #265
jackjeff wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the GP either I can’t do any of that. Sound is like images for me. An abstract concept you can reason about later but only experience in the moment.

Can you hear your own thoughts when thinking in sentences? If not what does thinking a sentence through feel like?

I can hear my thoughts and even speak to myself. I don't picture myself doing that and I don't have any image in my head.

Maybe it "looks" like a comic with only speech bubbles. It's still not the right image, because there is no image, but it also doesn't feel like a total void.

Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

#302

Post by czbond »

duncancarroll wrote: post #288
snaeker58 wrote: post #231

I really hate these aphantasia questions. It feels too subjective. I can visualize in a sense, but I would never talk of an image. In fact closing my eyes makes it harder for me to imagine anything. I can recall my dream from last night for example, I can describe it quite well. If you now would ask me to in my mind modify for example the color of the floor, I couldn’t. Because in “dream reality” I very much remember…

I agree, the interpretation factor is huge. I can picture things in my mind's eye, can remember what people look like, walk through the recent past, etc., but I don't see them painted as images on my closed eyelids as though I was seeing them with my actual eyes. When I remember I "see" them but not in a literal visual sense. Like if you asked me, "When you came to my house yesterday, did you see a green apple on the…

What I've learned is that there are people heavily focused on their senses and then there are others who take in information in other ways (possibly intuition, etc) because they are always in their head.

I have an incredibly poor short term memory, my wife an amazing sensor. She notices everything.... object placement, where things were weeks ago. I didn't notice an elephant walking by me years ago in Thailand; nor last week in a western state town I didn't the open carry long gun that a guy had whom I spoke to for 5 seconds. [he was protesting through engagement]

These are running jokes. I also can't relate to a majority of the world (sensors) - however, I can solve complex multi-chain problems in my head that they drop out at step 1.

Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

#303

Post by jrm4 »

snaeker58 wrote: post #231

I really hate these aphantasia questions. It feels too subjective. I can visualize in a sense, but I would never talk of an image. In fact closing my eyes makes it harder for me to imagine anything. I can recall my dream from last night for example, I can describe it quite well. If you now would ask me to in my mind modify for example the color of the floor, I couldn’t. Because in “dream reality” I very much remember…

Oh, thanks for this. This is the idea I had in my head about this as well. Especially in dreams, it just feels like the brain gives you "what you need" for the dream and -- because of how brains work -- "ignores" the rest, which is why you can't recall it, you never "needed" to.

This feels way more like "people not really grasping how brains work" than some condition.

Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

#304

Post by costco »

I don't see anything. I feel like we're talking past each other. I am skeptical that "visualize an apple" to some people gets them the mental equivalent of a Blender model where they get a 360 degree view of the image and from there they are able to apply arbitrary transformations. I can "replay" songs in my head with pretty good fidelity to the original if I remember enough of it, but I think that's fairly common.

Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

#305

Post by listenallyall »

ergonaught wrote: post #283
listenallyall wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"mind's eye" is a metaphor. You, like everyone else, have two eyes, in the front of your face. There isn't an extra one embedded in anyone's brain.

I'm not sure what you think you've gained or stated with this remark. "Mind's eye" and "visualization" refer to actual experiences. Those of us with aphantasia (no exceptions that I've encountered so far) did not realize these words referred to actual experiences.

Define "actual experiences". Normal people can not imagine an object like a red apple and actually see it, same as if one existed right in front of them. They can "visualize" it (just like you, it sounds), as in they can think of what it looks like, they would recognize one, they can even imagine broader scenes involving this apple (like an entire grocery aisle) but there is no "actual experience." You couldn't walk straight otherwise, you'd constantly be dodging imaginary objects that you'd be seeing.

Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

#306

Post by czbond »

costco wrote: post #304

I don't see anything. I feel like we're talking past each other. I am skeptical that "visualize an apple" to some people gets them the mental equivalent of a Blender model where they get a 360 degree view of the image and from there they are able to apply arbitrary transformations. I can "replay" songs in my head with pretty good fidelity to the original if I remember enough of it, but I think that's fairly common.

I have come to believe there are different type of intelligences, we all have a few, just different.

I do believe a subset of humans can rotate a mental image in their head. I know an accomplished UI / UX artist who would do just this. He'd create an image in his head, observe and critique it from angles and then create in "reality"

I can listen to a song 100 times, and not tell you more than 5 words in a song, nor the beat. My early teen son (a sensor) can sing the entire song after a few listens.

I used to think the only intelligence sign was being highly logical or able to solve complex problems. Because that is what I know. However, I've come to learn there are large swath of intelligences I don't have, and have not personally valued in the past, but others have them and can do great things with them.

This awareness has even allowed me to believe in a wider growth of intelligences at the spectrums, even to a type of supernatural gifts.

Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

#307

Post by swat535 »

It's so wild to me that people can't see pictures or hear music in their mind. I've always assumed everyone could do it but it just goes to show how little we know about the human brain.

I was reading the other day on HN that some people don't have an internal monologue and think very differently than I do (like thoughts just "appear" somehow?)

Now I'm wondering if there are any mind capabilities people possess that I don't? Humans are truly fascinating.

Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

#308

Post by cucustiuc »

costco wrote: post #304

I don't see anything. I feel like we're talking past each other. I am skeptical that "visualize an apple" to some people gets them the mental equivalent of a Blender model where they get a 360 degree view of the image and from there they are able to apply arbitrary transformations. I can "replay" songs in my head with pretty good fidelity to the original if I remember enough of it, but I think that's fairly common.

I am exactly the opposite, I can very easy imagine an object in my mind and apply a texture, color skew it, rotate it. I can easily visualize a chessboard with pieces that I can change colors and even move. I can visualize moments from past, faces, places, I can even draw them to some degree however without much talent. But for the life of me I can't remember my favorite music unless I start hearing it and then it comes to me, just to fade away seconds after I finish listening to it I can remember lyrics but without the music. I think that I kind of remember (chorus) national anthem and some children songs 1-2 of them, but I can sing along once the music starts. I have a very good memory otherwise, never had to use a todo list for my daily routine.

Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

#309

Post by hexaga »

costco wrote: post #304

I don't see anything. I feel like we're talking past each other. I am skeptical that "visualize an apple" to some people gets them the mental equivalent of a Blender model where they get a 360 degree view of the image and from there they are able to apply arbitrary transformations. I can "replay" songs in my head with pretty good fidelity to the original if I remember enough of it, but I think that's fairly common.

I can confirm it's basically a blender model in my head I can ~arbitrarily transform at will. Worth noting it's not just visual, I can 'touch' the surface of the imagined object(s) or whack two together and 'hear' what that sounds like.

Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

#310

Post by quenix »

beedeebeedee wrote: post #297

I feel like I have two visual fields. One that feels like it is through my eyes and of the outside world, and then another that has images or ideas that I can conjure up (almost like eigenfaces or other low resolution concepts). The second visual field isn't within the first, but feels like it is also roughly centered where my brain is.

Yes, same! Sometimes it almost feels like HDMI1 and HDMI2 or something, and I switch between the two during dreaming and sort of superimpose them somehow when picturing something
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