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Notes on Tajikistan

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Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#301

Post by ogurechny »

brnt wrote: post #219
ogurechny wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there were real conflicts, violence, and refugees fleeing both across and outside countries before the fall of Soviet Union (not predicted by anyone) and afterwards. Before you reach for checklists and flowcharts to figure out whether you should call them “atrocities” or “civil outrage”, let me refresh your memory. First, we need to look at oil and gas pipeline maps from USSR to Europe. It's easy to do, we're on…

[flagged]

That's what I'm talking about. Some people can afford the fancy of believing in belonging to a “state” that has been a single entity through centuries, and introduce mental gymnastics to embrace the “good parts”, and expel the “bad parts” to “the past” to pretend that “modern day person” is automatically different. “We the people”, yada yada. How is Russian Empire the same thing as Soviet Union? You could be killed for making that statement after the Revolution. (There are works that do actually trace the socially inherited features, but they are a bit deeper than newspaper level looking at a name or at a map, and fantasizing about “empires”.)

I am not yet senile, so I do remember that not so long ago everyone living on a stretch of land from Balkans to Bering Straight was a “Russian” with the same thick accent, no matter what they thought about that. That's the level of scientific discourse we're talking about. So current media-induced hyper-attentiveness to proper identification of characters on stage seems a bit hypocritical to me. As I said, there are people from “all those -stan countries lumped together because I'm too lazy to point my finger at any of them”, and also people from Russia who dissect actual dynamics of relationships in local societies instead of winging it with “ugh Soviet empire something something like African slave trade problem solved”.

Let's not forget there were multiple options to emigrate in early '90s. If you had at least some Russian family ties, you could try to flee to Russia. If you had at least some Jewish family ties, you could try to flee to Israel. If you had at least some German family ties, you could try to flee to Germany. Let's say we have twin sisters who were born in Tajikistan, and lived there. One decided to move to Russia (maybe because she had family and kids, and relatives on husband's side), other decided to move to Germany. Assuming they start at the same point in space and time, please tell me when one turns into colonialist, and the other into indirect victim of Soviet forced deportations?

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#302

Post by _DeadFred_ »

pythonguython wrote: post #62
_DeadFred_ wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When your police are free to abuse girls all the way up to abusing them to death for not wearing hats like Iran is, I'm pretty sure that's extremism.

And in the early 20th century pahlavi’s regime beat women who chose to keep wearing the hijab. Religious extremism in the form of salafi Wahhabism isn’t common in the country, nor is militant jihad. It’s theocratic authoritarianism. I think the difference is worth noting.

You first example is irrelevant.

Not sure why you want to label what to me is a distinction without a difference. You care about the motivations of a few at the top, I care about the local police and their supporters, which are acting like religious extremists not authoritarians.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#303

Post by ogurechny »

hagbard_c wrote: post #269
ogurechny wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without doubt, you believe that your interpretation is correct and should be used as a reference, unlike interpretations of all those stupid people.

What does 'my interpretation' mean in this context? Where do I specifically interpret islamic scripture? If you don't talk about a problem it can not be solved. If the problem is not solved it grows. If the problem grows it will cause more problems. When do you think the time comes to talk about this problem? https://time.com/4930742/islam-terrorism-islamophobia-violen... Many Western politicians and intellectuals sa…

You do interpret it as a real guide for large groups of people.

I actually think that your criticism is too surface level, and we need to go deeper. I propose that most of those people have very little of any kind of faith — no more than your average football team fans have. Moreover, they are not even substantially different from supposedly secular western football fans. You, on the other hand, try to deduce what people think just by looking at the color of their passport covers.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#304

Post by racional »

protomolecule wrote: post #300
racional wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Dan's point is that there's never a need to introduce references to a commenter's nationality or other presumed essential traits. No matter how self-evidently full of excrement their droppings here may be.

"I think Dan's point is that there's never a need to introduce references to a commenter's nationality or other presumed essential traits. No matter how self-evidently full of excrement their droppings here may be." @dang So how comments like this fit the site's guidelines? Btw, that's another account "using HN primarily for political and nationalistic battle".

There's nothing political or nationalistic at all in my comment.

My posts refer mostly to historical events, and attempt to correct the various (sometime rather bizarre) cognitive distortions that some people like to hold and promote about them. Along with many much milder and more innocuous misunderstandings.

Personally I eschew all forms of nationalism and nationalist rhetoric.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#306

Post by hot_gril »

tokai wrote: post #214
andy24 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This blanked statement is false. I’m speechless somebody can make claims like this tbh.

Definitely not false. Actually quite well covered by journalists and scholars. As an example: https://academic.oup.com/edinburgh-scholarship-online/book/2...

Yeah yeah, it's also well covered by journalists how all Americans are racist.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#307

Post by hot_gril »

sumedh wrote: post #262
theanonymousone wrote: post #189

Not so new fact that many here may already know: The (in?)famous -stan suffix, coming originally from Persian, is an etymological cousin of State, Street, Statistics, Strategy and Stadt. In Iran, provinces are called Ostan and some Ostans' names end with -stan (e.g. Ostan of Kurdistan). By the way, since it's not clear from their names, it may be worth noting that Tajiki and Persian are two dialects of the same langu…

> (in?)famous -stan suffix, coming originally from Persian Does it come from Persian or some common Indo European language, Sanskrit has something similar as well.

It's an extremely old word

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#308

Post by hot_gril »

hyperbolablabla wrote: post #207
theanonymousone wrote: post #189

Not so new fact that many here may already know: The (in?)famous -stan suffix, coming originally from Persian, is an etymological cousin of State, Street, Statistics, Strategy and Stadt. In Iran, provinces are called Ostan and some Ostans' names end with -stan (e.g. Ostan of Kurdistan). By the way, since it's not clear from their names, it may be worth noting that Tajiki and Persian are two dialects of the same langu…

*Farsi. Persia doesn't exist anymore. I find it strange that somewhat uniquely people refer to Iran by its ancient name. We're not speaking anglo-saxonish

This is like complaining that someone mentions the Spanish language instead of Español.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#309

Post by hot_gril »

theanonymousone wrote: post #189

Not so new fact that many here may already know: The (in?)famous -stan suffix, coming originally from Persian, is an etymological cousin of State, Street, Statistics, Strategy and Stadt. In Iran, provinces are called Ostan and some Ostans' names end with -stan (e.g. Ostan of Kurdistan). By the way, since it's not clear from their names, it may be worth noting that Tajiki and Persian are two dialects of the same langu…

Many countries with non-stan names in English have -stan names in their own languages, like Hindustan.

Also, lots of Mid East or central Asia town names end with -abad (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D8%A2%D8%A8%D8%A7%D8%AF#Pers...). Interestingly, so do some large American city names, I can't remember which.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#310

Post by fsckboy »

grecy wrote: post #260
admissionsguy wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and the West what?

Have you ever wondered why Switzerland is the world's second largest exporter of processed coffee, despite never growing a single bean? [1]. Germany is 3rd, Netherlands is 4th. Hmmmm. Have you ever wondered why all those poor countries around the world sell unprocessed coffee to Switzerland for pennies rather than telling Switzerland to take a hike, processing it themselves and making way more money? Have you ever wo…

>Have you ever wondered why farmers sell unprocessed grains to mills for millions of pennies rather than telling the mills to take a hike, processing it themselves and making way more money, all in the USofA and EU?

because it makes economic sense to do that.

but you can act locally, why do you buy clothing instead of knitting your own, and then with your spare time milling your own flour?

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